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Mythic - Giving Archer THREE methods to bypass PBT is entirely too much...
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Enkidu98
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Date Posted:
6/15/03 3:40pm
Subject:
Mythic - Giving Archer THREE methods to bypass PBT is entirely too much...
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Mythic,
Presuming Archers needed a special way through PBT (Which is debateable if they had used /assist like every other class in the game who does physical damage with slow 'firing' weapons) giving them three methods was entirely too much.
Rapid Fire - With Rapid fire you now allow archers to fire at .9 seconds per shot. This means they can get 5 shots in between pbt pulses. Even with unfavourable PBT timing (IE First shot breaks bt but then it refreshes immediately) the Archer still gets quite a few shots off.
So, Since Rapid fire already breaks PBT it would have been enough on its own.
Penetrating Arrow - With Penetrating Arrow, Bladeturns are ignored for group members. Most all the archers I know are taking advanatage of the 50 spec completely ignoring bladeturn. If you read the archer boards, very few are speccing low in bow like they were previously and most are nosw speccign at least 40 and many going to 50.
Since Penetrating arrow completely bypasses PBT (As well as breaking it) it also would have been enough on its own.
Volley and Longshot - Giving both of these archery RA's the bladeturn penetrating component was too much as well. Archers are now (finally) grouping with each other and using /assist and /groundassist. A group of archers using Ground Assist at a milegate or keep completey decimate the attackers with a VERY rapid and hardly 'limited' ability. Worse they can target areas arrows realistically should not be able to reach (inside stone fortifications) so there is NO DEFENSE at all against them.
Thats THREE methods to bypass Pbt when ONE wasn't even needed.
WORSE you have made it so that the first two work in conjunction.
Even the Scout TL objected to the level of nerfing that you gave PBT and tried to get it scaled back. But in typical fashion you chose not to listen to your playerbase and TL's and implemented something that completely obviates my class (Wardens) and just forces the other PBT classes to Ignore their PBT lines for their more heavily offense oriented specs.
Unfortunately, Wardens dont HAVE any alternative spec and you have shown no willingness at all to give them any improvements (The RA's granted in the last patch have been part of the BUG report for awhile.. They should have been in our RA list to begin with)
Mythic, if you are going to leave ALL THREE methods to bypass PBT and Bladeturns in the game, you need to do something to ensure that they are limited as well.
Rapid Fire and Penetrating arrow should be mutually exclusive, you get one or the other. NOT BOTH.
Longshot and Volley should be returned to their ORIGINAL TIMERS if you are going to make them so powerful.
The Archers who have been brought out of storage since this patch went live are people who actually learned how to play the game in the interim. As such, Archers are now utilising the tools that had been in the game all along to bypass PBT and so they are even more 'blessed' then just your patch changes.
With Archers finally using /assist and communicating with their groups, forming groups of Archers, they are learning how effective they could have been previous to this patch.
MANY archers (Dragonmyst Keep for example on percival Hibernia) Have been grouping and using assist for a long time and have had no issues and some have stated these changes over power them.
Please do something for Wardens. Roll back some of these unnecessary changes to Archers and maybe give our TL report a look see. We're not asking for much at all, we'ld just like to feel the 13$ we pay for month provides us the same level of enjoyment other classes derive from their subscription.
Gwalchmei
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Go play Pac-man if you don't like change. -- Orannon
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Phar0z
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Date Posted:
6/15/03 3:51pm
Subject:
RE: Mythic - Giving Archer THREE methods to bypass PBT is entirely too much...
- Date Edited:
6/15/03 3:52pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Phar0z
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lol. Someone calling for an archer nerf.
Cry more and get a group.
IBTL.
"If you read the archer boards, very few are speccing low in bow like they were previously and most are nosw speccign at least 40 and many going to 50. "
OH NO people ARE finally SPECING their BOW to LEVEL 50. LETS nerf BOW SOME more.
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Asun80
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Date Posted:
6/15/03 3:52pm
Subject:
RE: Mythic - Giving Archer THREE methods to bypass PBT is entirely too much...
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I didn't read your post but just one thing:
cry more noob.
/IBTL
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Moqdu
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Date Posted:
6/15/03 3:55pm
Subject:
RE: Mythic - Giving Archer THREE methods to bypass PBT is entirely too much...
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"Since Penetrating arrow completely bypasses PBT (As well as breaking it) it also would have been enough on its own."
TRhis is a untrue statement. PA gets passed PBT but for a portion of the actual damage.
Boo hoo archers are not the RP cows of old...please /nerf them again.
Please get over yourself and stop calling for nerfs of your realmmates abilities.
-----signature-----
Schweaty DasTier - (Seclusion/Midgard Firefighter)
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{old}Malice_Wyrmbow
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Date Posted:
6/15/03 4:12pm
Subject:
RE: Mythic - Giving Archer THREE methods to bypass PBT is entirely too much...
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I would like to comment on a couple things:
"Rapid Fire - With Rapid fire you now allow archers to fire at .9 seconds per shot."
Hard cap is 1.5 seconds, you can't go below that. Now, this helps Scouts and Rangers more than Hunters, as Hunters in general used slightly faster bow (not having access to the slow bows the Rangers and Scouts have).
About archers assisting and slow weapons. First, there are generally never enough archers to assist one another on my server. Most have stoped playing months ago and rolled other classes (including myself). On my server, assisting archers were the LAST thing you had to worry about. Also keep in mind that Archers are subject to all the disadvantages of magic AND melee while have a couple that are archer only. Not to mention that I can't switch to a faster high qualiaty bow basically because they are not craftable.
Keep in mind that going 50 Bow pretty much gimps everything else a archer can do.
Having said all that, I think that it is something to keep an eye on. I was really looking for changes to make us group friendly rather than this. I have not yet done alot of testing with it, but so far it looks to be quite powerful against casters, and possible too powerful. However after being at the mercy of every other class for the last year or so, having a chance feels almost godlike compared to what my class was reduced to (RP cow).
I also was not a big fan on reg shots breaking PBT. I felt that Crit shots should have, and crit shots should be easier to get off. I would have rather not have another classes main ablility get nerfed however.
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Horizons-Malice: 5x Sslik Ranger, Expanse Server
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{old}Thornhill_Perc
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Date Posted:
6/15/03 4:16pm
Subject:
RE: Mythic - Giving Archer THREE methods to bypass PBT is entirely too much...
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Archers whined for over a year. If you whine enough about anything in this game that does not involve chanters you will get your wish.
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Thornhill Bloodborne
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sqwibz
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Date Posted:
6/15/03 4:27pm
Subject:
RE: Mythic - Giving Archer THREE methods to bypass PBT is entirely too much...
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You forgot the base chance (which is tiny) but it's still there! 
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Losco_PCoaltrain
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Date Posted:
6/15/03 4:40pm
Subject:
RE: Mythic - Giving Archer THREE methods to bypass PBT is entirely too much...
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PBT is still one of the most powerful non-RA group defensive spells in the game. It may be slightly less effective against one particular class of player than it was before the nerf, but that's it. It's still a valuable tool for RvR and a necessity on any high-level PvE raid.
Besides, you can always have the pet caster/charmer in the group put their pet on aggressive and sweep for the archer in the direction that the arrow shaft is pointing, and sniff him out, and that's provided you don't have any assasins in the group with see hidden.
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angryranger
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Date Posted:
6/15/03 4:49pm
Subject:
RE: Mythic - Giving Archer THREE methods to bypass PBT is entirely too much...
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thornhill lost his pacifier and his I WIN button. /sniffle. Sbs whine far worse than archers ever did. SBs can still maul archers one on one, but the SB losers want a guaranteed win.
/sniffle
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Mythic - Laughingstock of the gaming world
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GurthStonefist
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Date Posted:
6/15/03 5:03pm
Subject:
RE: Mythic - Giving Archer THREE methods to bypass PBT is entirely too much...
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"Hard cap is 1.5 seconds, you can't go below that. Now, this helps Scouts and Rangers more than Hunters, as Hunters in general used slightly faster bow (not having access to the slow bows the Rangers and Scouts have). "
Mythic stated that the max for rapid fire was 0.9 seconds, and I have heard scouts confirm that properly buffed they can approach this number without even using the fastest bow.
I am not arguing that archers are overpowered, merely that your statement was incorrect.
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{old}lopak
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Date Posted:
6/15/03 5:12pm
Subject:
RE: Mythic - Giving Archer THREE methods to bypass PBT is entirely too much...
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Gurth that was a bug that was fixed , check the herald. They ran in on pendragon for 1 day. Put it life the next. Also so was the rapid fire = full damage shots. Both werebugs. and both havebeen fixed.
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GurthStonefist
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Date Posted:
6/15/03 5:38pm
Subject:
RE: Mythic - Giving Archer THREE methods to bypass PBT is entirely too much...
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No lopak you need to read it again. They clearly stated that the cap on rapidfire was and still is 0.9 seconds. The only bug was that rapidfire was hitting for more than 1/2 damage.
Here is the quote from the fix.
"Fixed an issue with Rapid Fire and Quickness/Mastery of Archery. Previously a high quickness and/or Mastery of Archery realm ability would result in higher Rapid Fire damage than intended due to the way the timer was calculated. Now Rapid Fire damage will scale down appropriately with the resulting decrease in draw time."
Nowhere does it say that minimum draw time was increased, merely that the damage was higher than intended.
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{old}Shriknah
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Date Posted:
6/15/03 6:03pm
Subject:
RE: Mythic - Giving Archer THREE methods to bypass PBT is entirely too much...
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See sig
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Cry more, IBTL, use tactics, ect...
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DireBoliccus
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Date Posted:
6/15/03 6:06pm
Subject:
RE: Mythic - Giving Archer THREE methods to bypass PBT is entirely too much...
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agree with original poster.. i didn't think my class could get even more gimped than it was.. But mythic found a way.. thanks mythic, warden will now be selved. 
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DireBoliccus <Iron Circle> 50th level Celt Warden, Hibernia - Gawaine
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50 warden going cheap! $5 , and thats AUD 
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Insolent_Ant
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Date Posted:
6/15/03 6:06pm
Subject:
RE: Mythic - Giving Archer THREE methods to bypass PBT is entirely too much...
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Archers are the masters of crying.
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I'll miss you Eka. Efaiim, 70 tauren shaman, Kilrogg (PvE) Sevoac, 70 tauren druid, Kilrogg (PvE) 70 mage (PvE), 69 paladin (PvP), 60 warrior (PvP)
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Morph2x
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Date Posted:
6/15/03 6:33pm
Subject:
RE: Mythic - Giving Archer THREE methods to bypass PBT is entirely too much...
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Archers are terrible to play.... in germany we dont have patch 1.62 now, but don't let archers get stronger, you don't geht any RP's more free..
Keep Crying and keep on dieing ^^
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GoldManiac
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Date Posted:
6/15/03 8:05pm
Subject:
RE: Mythic - Giving Archer THREE methods to bypass PBT is entirely too much...
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I love how much people can be jerks in response to a thread they do not agree with.
First: Mythic said that arrows can be shot as fast as .9 seconds a shot. The bug they fixed is that dps should be the same as a regular shot. Of course they don't take damage add into account.
Second: Earth theurgist - one of the worst spec lines in the game. Yea, we really needed a nerf. It was the multiple 6 second pbt warden groups that caused archers trouble. Not the single 10 second or even the single 6 second pbt.
Third: I was defending a keep with very few others as my wizard. We were lucky enough that there were no assissins in the attacking force. But every minute or so I would get hit for 500 damage 2 times and die. Is that really necessary that archers can kill a caster in 1 shot with volley?
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{old}Ardamus
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Date Posted:
6/15/03 8:34pm
Subject:
RE: Mythic - Giving Archer THREE methods to bypass PBT is entirely too much...
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"I love how much people can be jerks in response to a thread they do not agree with."
I agree. It's okay to post a intellegent responce to something you don't agree with, but its another thing to to be an ass about it. Of course this is the VN boards so its no surprize. The best thing you can do is just ignore them.
As a caster I feel this love archers got maybe a bit extreme, but thats just me.
Ardamus - Percival
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broton
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Date Posted:
6/15/03 8:58pm
Subject:
RE: Mythic - Giving Archer THREE methods to bypass PBT is entirely too much...
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Ok yes we can get down to .9 sec with RF, thats with a full 50 enhanc bot and MoA of at least 2. And with that comes the oh so big dmg of 100-150. Now with a competent healer that is not really a problem. You don't like the interupts, well move back. Most archers will switch targets once one is out of range. As far as PBT not being overpowered before, let me make this example how would you like 1 out of your 10 spells hitting someone. With 6 sec pbt and even worse the dreaded 3 sec pbt (2 wardens) it was damn near impossible with a 5.5 bow. So you say use tactics, ok I am using the weapon that defines my class the 5.5 with having the longest range, so I have to give that up so I can fight. What really strikes me is how many people would actually ignore archers before, I was always the last to die, not because I wasn't in the middle of the fight, but because I had a bow out and sometimes it was laughable what we could do against pbt. I am not 50 spec LB, if I do that my melee would end up at 6, keeping the rest of my spec. So I digress, only thing I can agree with you on is the poor earth thugs, not because I am from alb, but because they don't do much else sides pbt. Done.
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Broton - 50 Scout (Lancelot) Lords of Lancelot
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{old}Laraa
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Date Posted:
6/15/03 9:05pm
Subject:
RE: Mythic - Giving Archer THREE methods to bypass PBT is entirely too much...
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"lol. Someone calling for an archer nerf.
Cry more and get a group. "
HINT - HINT - HINT
HE was in a group but the GROUP bubble didn't work because mr. archer is unable to group and assist like a normal tank ...
mighty solo roxxor he?
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{old}Blaac
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Date Posted:
6/15/03 9:17pm
Subject:
RE: Mythic - Giving Archer THREE methods to bypass PBT is entirely too much...
- Date Edited:
6/15/03 9:18pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
{old}Blaac
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"Ok yes we can get down to .9 sec with RF, thats with a full 50 enhanc bot and MoA of at least 2. And with that comes the oh so big dmg of 100-150."
The funny thing is you dont think doing 100-150 dmg per SECOND is overpowered...
If those really are the numbers I am definitely rolling and archer over my warden.
The only use a warden is in RvR is PBT and rez.... PBT was never a solution to tanks, because you never fight a group composed of ONE tank. It is not a solution to assassins because thier most damageing stlyes bypass bladeturns alltogether. It most defintitely isnt a solution to casters since spells go right through them. PBT was a solution to archers picking people out of groups without anyone noticing.
Now a warden has really bad tank damage, bad healing, low health, low defenses, and a pulsing skill that will only help in one on one battles and PvE...
Wardens may be useful in PvE raids, but in RvR they are nothing more than weak rezzers or someone to interrupt a caster for 10 seconds until he gets nuked twice and dies.
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Blaac <Colonial Marines> 50th Firby Warden
Blaac 50th Dwarf Healer Master Armorer
Ameanie GonnaStabYou 4x Lurikeen Nightshade
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{old}WeaselDX_AW
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Date Posted:
6/15/03 9:33pm
Subject:
RE: Mythic - Giving Archer THREE methods to bypass PBT is entirely too much...
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You make a very flawed assumption about 3 methods..we do have access to 3 methods very few archers will have them all...
Longshot + Volley imo is too many Realm Ability Points for what you get.
Most archers have 40ish in bow (I took it to 50, but I was originally 50, dropped it because there was no pt, now there is)
40 in bow gives them PF 2 and RF 1, so they do squat dmg through PBT.
People say archers whined, for reason, if anyone EVER feared a archer before this patch, they need to learn to play there class more effictively. So what you are saying is that we can kill you now?, we have a use in a group?
We still don't have a too-hit bonus..we don't have stun/bleed/snare, they only "styles" we have now are RF and PF which seem reasonable, even on my tanks an archer isn't gonna kill me without help are i have like no healer class at all, they just don't do the damage over time to classes.
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Enkidu98
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Date Posted:
6/15/03 9:43pm
Subject:
RE: Mythic - Giving Archer THREE methods to bypass PBT is entirely too much...
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Shouldn't archers get groups themselves.
Don't pull out the tired old excuse 'Get a Group' blah blah blah because people HAVE groups.
But they are being taken down by SOLO Archers, who whined for ages because SOLO they couldnt take on Groups and get away with a kill anymore.
If Archers had used /assist and /groundassist more freuently, grouped with other archers etc if they couldnt find a standard gank group, then none of this would have been an issue.
DO NOT tell me to group when you seem incapable of it yourself.
The tools existed previous to 1.62 for Archers to do well against PBT. They just chose not to.
And so a 150% crit shot is 'piddly'?
At 40 bow you get 75% damage, or 150% damage on a crit shot with penetrating arrow.
Add to this rapid fire and you get to do it every 1 second.
This is overpowered.
And I really love the quality of your responses. Typical of a community that knows their new abilities are not really justified.
There are MANY ways to have helped archers, I posted more than 13 of them myself in a seperate thread.
Nerfing another class/classes is not the best way to balance the game. There were effective options for 'buffs' to the Archer classes that would have overcome some of your issues without touching any other classes class defining ability.
And you then have the gall to sit back and tell us to STFU and 'crai more'.
Funny, I was trying to help Archers, you are trying to nerf me.
You have THREE METHODS to bypass PBT, when not even one was really needed.
If you had 'USED TACTICS' and 'GOT A GROUP' like you are telling other folks to do, then you would have been fine.
How long has /assist been in the game?
Gwal
-----signature-----
Go play Pac-man if you don't like change. -- Orannon
It takes change to play Pac-Man, try another one. -- Jarvssen
VN Insider account 20$, Reading Threads 0$, Seeing Orannon PWNED!!!! Priceless!
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{old}Balikar
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Date Posted:
6/15/03 10:09pm
Subject:
RE: Mythic - Giving Archer THREE methods to bypass PBT is entirely too much...
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>>If Archers had used /assist and /groundassist more freuently, grouped with other archers etc if they couldnt find a standard gank group, then none of this would have been an issue.
DO NOT tell me to group when you seem incapable of it yourself. <<
Most archers TRY to Gwal, and get turned down for healers, shaman, casters, tanks... you know, the folk that matter. Archers instead get told, "Go scout. That's what your job is. You'd be a wasted slot for that..."
>>And so a 150% crit shot is 'piddly'?
At 40 bow you get 75% damage, or 150% damage on a crit shot with penetrating arrow.
<<
Crit shot is the bread and butter of an archer Gwal. Even you seem to know this... PBT pre patch negated that, as you can't crit someone in combat, who's running, etc.
>>You have THREE METHODS to bypass PBT, when not even one was really needed. <<
Not quite. Volley and Longshot are RA's and need to be excluded. Why? Not only are they RA's, but they are also timer based. Hence, timer based abilities are situational. Also, pre patch, they couldn't bypass BT in any form either, so they were negated. To cry foul that these shouldn't is akin to saying that a CC form should stop SoS groups in their tracks, NOT just 30 seconds after they get it.
Lastly, PA is the only thing you should be talking about. Why? Because its what all archers get. Not all of them get Volley/Longshot due to costs. It's currently not worth it. Afterall, to be effective, we're told we need truesight, purge, and IP long before volley/longshot.  Don't believe me, ask around what people flaunt in front of archers as abilities they can/should have. So cost is a major factor, as each of those is about 10, and IP is at 25.
Tell you what, get on the wagon for volley/longshot to be made styles... then we can start really talking about ways to work with them. As right now, we have four styles of shooting to choose from, and that's it. And two of them we have to spend realm points on. You get how many spells/styles with your specs?
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Balikar - 50th Hunter - Bors <The Lords of Darkness> <RETIRED>
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Kellzz_Farshot
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Date Posted:
6/15/03 10:11pm
Subject:
RE: Mythic - Giving Archer THREE methods to bypass PBT is entirely too much...
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do this for me.
roll an archer class at lvl 1.
lvl that class to 50.
tell me again how archers need nerfed?
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"Thou shall not spill thy seed into thine sock and stuff it in the bottom of the hamper like it's been there a long time." ~ God
People take better care of things they own individually than things they hold in common
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Blazer101
collection | wishlist
Posts:
6,307
Registered:
Mar '02
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Date Posted:
6/15/03 10:12pm
Subject:
RE: Mythic - Giving Archer THREE methods to bypass PBT is entirely too much...
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Giving a class an ability to negate someones main attack is entirely too much.
Cry more.
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Tezuka - Gareth <Vanir>
<< Formerly Known As >>
Weh, Tezuka, and Badukasan of Nimue
Emerald Ridere
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