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New to DAOC and Playing on Gaheris!
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orb976
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3,087
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Oct '01
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Date Posted:
1/31/08 7:21pm
Subject:
RE: New to DAOC and Playing on Gaheris!
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When it comes to the music classes you have 3 options and I personally put skalds at the bottom for this server.
Bards are good for the usual, that being songs that provide pulsing bonuses, endurance which is unique to them, and consistant heals. They have spells that let them put your enemies to sleep for short periods of time too but you have to watch out that you don't split spec too much or you become less effective as you get higher in level.
Minstrels are about the best class (to me) for this type of server in this category. They don't get the healing abilities bards do, but they do get a nice addition that bards to not. The minstrel can charm enemy monsters. At higher levels you can charm monsters that are higher level than yourself (although that takes some finesse). They can also deal some damage in Melee, while they have the pet charmed. They get stealth but that's not as useful on this server so I would completely ignore it.
Now Skalds get the same song abilities the other 2 get (with exceptions they all have a unique one) and they have better fighting capabilities, but that's it. Oh yeah they can do all of their songs without an instrument (cause they are singers) while bards need a instrument for all of theirs and minstrels need one for about half of theirs.
All in all a bard can be a good healer with extras ( although not as good as primary healers), Minstrels are about the best charm class plus they get songs, and skalds are really sub par as far as damage goes but they get some song tricks, but still they end up at the bottom of the damage output pile.
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kobenator
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Date Posted:
1/31/08 9:07pm
Subject:
RE: New to DAOC and Playing on Gaheris!
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i use my untemplated rr0 for my bard as my primary healing for everything but dragons. for dragons i use my 50 mend healer.
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Asberdies
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Date Posted:
1/31/08 9:11pm
Subject:
RE: New to DAOC and Playing on Gaheris!
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"Another tip, when pulling multiple mobs to get the pet to hit all mobs, is to passive pet then put back on defense, otherwise it will continue to attack the last one you told it to attack."
And after that mob dies, the pet will revert to standard mob AI and simply attack the mob that has the most aggro/has done most damage to the pet.
Izza, Skalds have a couple things going for them. Number one is that they don't need an instrument, which enables them to twistchants a lot easier than the other two while levelling/before getting Phoebus or Champ harp. Number two is melee DPS, which is admittedly not a prime concern on Gaheris after 50. Bards are obviously the most group friendly music class, but in a duo you'd be bored to tears. Winstrels are the best solo class, but in groups either you are less melee DPS than the skald, or your pet is not as fun as it is solo, or your pet steals the fun from your groupmates. And in a duo where the other guy is not a bot, you will bore him to tears. For a duo with an RL buddy, I'd probably take the skald over the other two and hope that my buddy has buffs, a shield, or both.
BTW, the unique to skalds chant (relative to other music classes, not actually unique) is the end reduction chant. If said duo is two melee hybrids (skald w/reaver, VW, Tic, valk, hell even vamp or mauler) then that could be very important.
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You can't spell ignorance without I-G-N
Do you think that if the Bee Gees had been named 'Johnson' instead of 'Gibb' that they would have kept the same naming convention?
And if so, would they have been even more popular in gay clubs?
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PasswordLLOTH
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Title: i can haz title
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Jun '07
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Date Posted:
1/31/08 9:54pm
Subject:
RE: New to DAOC and Playing on Gaheris!
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skald dps blows. the endo reduc can come from friar or champ, both of which are better toons then skald. the problem with skald is its defining trait: battlesongs. either you go high BS, weak weapon(no parry), or medium BS, high weapon, no parry(gimp songs? not really worth it), or high weapon, high parry, gimp songs, and at that point there is no point in making a skald.
with evade1 and spec parry as their only defense, skalds make horrible tanks.
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"Password, you and I both know your posting style is quintessential of baiting/trolling." - Chanell
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kobenator
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Date Posted:
1/31/08 11:29pm
Subject:
RE: New to DAOC and Playing on Gaheris!
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a skald and warden would probably be a fun duo. while some other tank could give you better dps then the skald the speed and sojourner will save alot of time exploring, traveling and questing.
and if you really are worrieda bout dps skip tanks all together and partner up a sm with that warden.
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Maelochs
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Date Posted:
2/1/08 1:56am
Subject:
RE: New to DAOC and Playing on Gaheris!
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As I think I said above, the skald is not really useful at 50 but a ton of fun to play.
I realize that most people who post here are jaded veterans that have forgotten the shivering thrill of sneaking though unknown territory, wondering what wonder or peril lies just ahead, having no idea if fortune or death awaits.
For a new player, everything is new, and thrilling and exciting.
Vets no longer need to explore - we know where everything is and how it works and how to avoid or engage whichever mobs or encounters we desire.
For a veteran, what's left is maximizing, optimizing, elevating... trying to do more with less and get the most.
For a veteran, playing a less-than-optimmal class just won't cut it (well, for most... I still enjoy playing my skald from time to time (though it does get frustrating.)
For a brand-new player, the thrill of exploration and learning is paramount, and playing a really fun class makes a real difference.
This is Gaheris. If someone wants to, they can get PL'd to fifty in a few hours. It's not alike an RvR server where the effort to get to fifty (and get the requisite realm points along the way) mean that a fifty is a fairly precious thing.
If a new player (like myself) makes a less-than-optimal class (like a skald) and gets it to fifty and then wants something else, ti is not such a big deal.
What is a big deal is the tremendous fun one can have with a skald. Having decent melee (while leveling on yellows and OJs) having ranged magic attacks, a damage add, an endo regen, a very useful snare and an insta mez - which is a great help - plus having speed, which makes up for the lack of a decent horse before level fifty - makes the skald a very enjoyable class to play up until fifty.
I would rather a new player have a lot of fun than play a class someone else thinks is optimal under certain conditions. Fun is a lot more likely to keep a player logging on than being "optimal" and bored.
And once he has a fifty, he can /level 20 and try a lot of toons with ease.
I think I got it right the first time: skalds aren't much use at fifty but are a blast to level.
In case anyone still plays for fun.
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saragorn
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Date Posted:
2/1/08 2:45am
Subject:
RE: New to DAOC and Playing on Gaheris!
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"i understand that it is part of the poor pet pathing issues"
Why it does it doesn't matter, just that passiving the pet is how to get it to stop trying to run off. I don't look at it as pathing as it isn't while the pets are traveling, I am talking about when they are in combat in one spot yet start to move slightly to fight each other and end up doing this dance of sorts and gradually traveling away from you and passiving the pet usually stops the cycle. Hence is another use for putting pet on passive and back on defensive of the pet so the only reason isn't to ae the mobs.
I don't know if they reduced the effectiveness of fds against higher cons, but know the agro it once had (but that was even before I started playing) people could focus shield and heal with practically impunity. Having about half the agro and the other half to caster sounds about right, even with pet doing damage and focus shield, healing with cabby can easily pull agro.
"And after that mob dies, the pet will revert to standard mob AI and simply attack the mob that has the most aggro/has done most damage to the pet. "
This is true though which has most agro changes so he does typically switch targets (assuming you have pulled similar level mobs) and that allows the pet to hit and possibly taunt several mobs thus allowing agro from more mobs. I just find it works well to send pet after mobs, passive to bring pet back put back on defensive is a convenient way to pull and I like to split the damage the pet deals out more evenly on the mobs as it makes killing more efficient.
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Saragorn - Level 50 Druid - Gaheris
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Adiemus_Kreigsadler
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Jun '07
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Date Posted:
2/1/08 6:44pm
Subject:
RE: New to DAOC and Playing on Gaheris!
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I do think that focus damage shield works differently against very high level mobs than it does lower ones.
In my experience, I can use FDS to pull several grape mobs at one time and very seldom does my Shaman get aggro even when using his better heals. Against reds/ojs and yellows, fds holds aggro better than 99% of the time (the only case where it fails is when I screw up and donlt change target mobs prior to the mob dying).
However, if the mob is grape and gives "some master level experience"- forget it. I'm thinking the mob AI is coded differently for these exceptionally powerful mobs (makes sense, dangit). I've actually gotten aggro onto my Shammie casting only the 25th level HoT- more than once.
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PasswordLLOTH
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Title: i can haz title
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Date Posted:
2/1/08 9:52pm
Subject:
RE: New to DAOC and Playing on Gaheris!
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you shouldnt get aggro from using a hot.
that is probably an issue with how the mob sees the toons that are 'fighting' it. maybe it enjoys hunting down healer/support types 
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Gringor
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Title: Hungry Beaver
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Date Posted:
2/1/08 10:29pm
Subject:
RE: New to DAOC and Playing on Gaheris!
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shamans dont have HoT's.
Learn your classes
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u good cleric - Zarius, Warrior on Gaheris
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Maelochs
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Date Posted:
2/2/08 2:27am
Subject:
RE: New to DAOC and Playing on Gaheris!
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True. Shamans have regen spells that barely tick once while the target is in combat. Unless you spec a shaman 50 Mend, the Friggs are about frigging useless. I never put them on my hotbars.
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PasswordLLOTH
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Title: i can haz title
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Date Posted:
2/2/08 7:50am
Subject:
RE: New to DAOC and Playing on Gaheris!
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either way how would it attract aggro? it is technically a buff and not a heal of any sort so...
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"Password, you and I both know your posting style is quintessential of baiting/trolling." - Chanell
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Asberdies
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Date Posted:
2/2/08 9:53am
Subject:
RE: New to DAOC and Playing on Gaheris!
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"True. Shamans have regen spells that barely tick once while the target is in combat. Unless you spec a shaman 50 Mend, the Friggs are about frigging useless. I never put them on my hotbars."
They used to only tick once in combat, twice if you timed it perfect. But since 1.87 they tick three times, four times if you time it right. Also, the value of the regen is double the delve value. It's still no HoT, but the group version is hardly worthles these days....unless your group has a skald, bard, or minstrel twisitng in their regen song.
-----signature-----
You can't spell ignorance without I-G-N
Do you think that if the Bee Gees had been named 'Johnson' instead of 'Gibb' that they would have kept the same naming convention?
And if so, would they have been even more popular in gay clubs?
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Maelochs
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Date Posted:
2/2/08 3:16pm
Subject:
RE: New to DAOC and Playing on Gaheris!
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Thanks for the info.
Unless they changed all aspects, it is an aggro-free spell.
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saragorn
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Date Posted:
2/2/08 6:32pm
Subject:
RE: New to DAOC and Playing on Gaheris!
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Fighting higher con mobs, just means the pet will HIT it more often, have less resists on the taunt and do more damage. This has nothing to do with agro generated by the shield itself.
This is demonstrated in the following: "(the only case where it fails is when I screw up and donlt change target mobs prior to the mob dying). "
If you don't let the pet hit the mob, a SINGlE smallest heal possible can get you agro.
In playing around in a TD with my cabby and cleric, I was pulling mobs without using heal proc, and telling pet to go to target and keeping him on passive or only attacking a particular mob and when I healed the bot got agro.
There are a FEW named mobs (such as IBN) that are TWITCHY and don't follow normal agro rules and in those cases a HOT or Health regen can get the caster of that spell agro, but those are special cases not.
Nearly anything else regardless of level a frig or hot will not cause any real agro to the caster thus fds will maintain agro.
"worth ML exp" indicates nothing special about a mob, all it means is that mob is has a min spawn level of 61. Named special mobs are usually worth mlexp regardless of level and are usually tougher than a standard mob of the same level but not all, and there are plenty of mobs that there is nothing special about them yet are worth mlexp.
What I mean by how tough the mob is typically comes down to the ablities it posseses, some of which can affect the pets ability to hold agro.
Thing is it comes down to individual encounters and how they are coded and yes most "special" encounters are coded differently but some mobs are just high level but their behaviour is the same as any old average mob.
Point is just because a mob is worth mlexp, doesn't mean mythic coded the AI differently in terms of what generates agro. If mob is worth some rather than a little exp, typically means mob is of higher level up around 70, and that alone will mean chances of your pet hitting without juggy or ml9 is slim to none so ya pet isn't holding agro though much healing unless you got ml9/juggy and/or heal proc. However, there are also some low 60s mobs in the game that have high defenses that make it near impossible for pet to hit as well so can be just as difficult to hold agro on.
It is not all that complex to knowing the reasons your getting agro but it is more complex than simply concluding, "if the mob is grape and gives "some master level experience"- forget it."
I never thought shammy frigs were useless before the regen changes. They might of only ticed once (I am not sure I buy that) but that little healing every once in a while was enough to fill gaps with the heal chant from paly so that bot almost never actually had to target to heal. This left me free to /assist paly and dot the mobs. Also, it worked well if the bot was the one that actually needed healing, if she was in combat my chant would help heal her and allow me regain agro but once I got agro back she be out of combat and regen would finish healing her.
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Saragorn - Level 50 Druid - Gaheris
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Adiemus_Kreigsadler
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Date Posted:
2/2/08 8:43pm
Subject:
RE: New to DAOC and Playing on Gaheris!
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All I know is that, if I try to use FDS on a named grape mob that grants mlxp, if I heal the healer gets aggro. Period, end of sentence. Does not matter if it's Friggs- and yes I would consider it a HoT because it heals over time (duh!)- the smaller heal or the larger heal. If the spell my Shammie casts restores hitpoint to my Sim, then the mob gets very angry with my Sim.
I also know that, when tried against normal grapes, I do not have the same problem- even if it is multiple mobs.
Maybe I'm just unlucky- wouldn't be the first time- but I see cause and effect here pretty starkly.
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Quazimortal
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Title: The One and Only
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Date Posted:
2/2/08 9:29pm
Subject:
RE: New to DAOC and Playing on Gaheris!
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Wow you guys are gonna scare this guy away with all of this crazy stuff. 
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The real world is for people who can't imagine anything better.
VN is the source of most of my laughter lately.
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saragorn
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Date Posted:
2/3/08 12:14pm
Subject:
RE: New to DAOC and Playing on Gaheris!
- Date Edited:
2/3/08 12:15pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
saragorn
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I am wasting my time though trying to discuss this with you since you don't seem care to actually understand the game mechanics but for the sake of trying to have as accurate information as I can give I am posting the best I know on the subject.
Like a year or more ago, mythic made it so that mobs that always spawn purple grant mlexp, ie min spawn is level 61 but since mobs levels vary there are mobs like mahr that can be purple yet not worth mlexp. They also made practically any named mob worth mlexp including some below level 61 except when it's an actual ml encounter (this i guess so people only kill it for credit and get mlexp that way). If they missed any grapes that is not an ml encounter, there is probably nothing special about the mob and it can spawn at 60 or below too so they aren't a very high level grape.
So the MLEXP deal is not really important except as a rough indicator of mob level since mob difficulty was a factor when mythic determined how much mlexp a mob was worth. Purple but not worth mlexp, 61 or 62 most likely, worth a little exp indicates 61-65ish, worth some exp, most likely upper 60s, worth mlexp expect that mob to be 70+.
With regards to ai, obviously named mobs often have different coding to make them "tougher", how so varies on the named is the key point I am trying to get accross. You could see the same behaviour of mob turning on bot without a good reason fighting Director Kobil in DF for example since he is a "special encounter" but yet with his level, pet is not going to miss or resist near as much so chances of agro on bot are lower. If the encounter itself is nothing special, then it has the "worth mlexp" just from the fact it's min spawn is 61+ thus often 65+ and that fact meaning mob hits harder, so you need healing sooner, or pet isn't hitting so it's only fds agro.
It is probably simply that in most of the named you taken on, since typical level of those would be mid 60s or higher while grapes not worth mlexp would be below be unlikely to be more than 64 and most often only 61 or 62.
As for the frigs getting agro that be pretty rare to be the only factor except in a few special cases, like Ibn which can be prone to agro ya if you sneeze near him.
The point Jenny brought up about fds being differently on higher levels was about effectiveness so I take to mean the damage done not that the mobs behaviour ai being coded differently and if this is the case I think it would of been done based off level. If the dps is lower from higher level mobs, then agro generated would be lower as a byproduct, but again this I believe would be an issue with level not whether mob is "named and worth mlexp". Just did quick test on pen, though it was a very small test, seems the level doesn't matter but the mob does. The range stayed the same when going for a level 50 to a level 75, but going from thrust mob to crush mob there was a noticable difference in the damage range. I also went out to frontier and let green knight wack on my pet, one hit did 196 and I have rarely seen it hit for harder and when I have, not by much so level does not seem to matter.
A hot is a HEAL over time and are heals that are coded not to provide heal agro. What the shammy spell does is boost your natural HEALTH REGENERATION and are also coded not to provide heal agro. There are differences in how they are coded and thus how they behave so it is good to be accurate on what the spell is. Since your health regen rate is SLOWER in combat that is why health regens are less effective in combat. A health regen can stack with a hot, but two hots do not stack, nor do two health regens.
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Saragorn - Level 50 Druid - Gaheris
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grimarrow
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Jan '08
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Date Posted:
2/6/08 10:21am
Subject:
RE: New to DAOC and Playing on Gaheris!
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All this wonderful information. Lets keep this up. I am sure I am not the only one who appreciates it.
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xeene
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Title: Spawn of Legion
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Date Posted:
2/6/08 11:01am
Subject:
RE: New to DAOC and Playing on Gaheris!
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Quazimortal posted:
Wow you guys are gonna scare this guy away with all of this crazy stuff.
i thought so too, like asking for directions on the street and having a world atlas thrown in your face
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Moloendo
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Date Posted:
2/6/08 11:25am
Subject:
RE: New to DAOC and Playing on Gaheris!
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Hold on a second!
Did Asber say something remotely positive about Thanes?
Molosludgefoot rejoices!
Greets All
I hope all is well.
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