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Topic:
Dev, Please Read Concerning Relic Keeps
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Gris_Crackdealer
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Aug '02
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Date Posted:
8/13/03 11:23am
Subject:
Dev, Please Read Concerning Relic Keeps
- Date Edited:
8/13/03 11:30am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Gris_Crackdealer
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In this patch (1.64), Relic Keeps were given named guards that never leave the inner doors. The purpose of this, I'm assuming, was to discourage relic raids that involve a stealth team knocking down the 3rd door ONLY while the rest of the raid handles the guards.
There is a flaw in this implementation of a good idea.
Hibernia has nightshades as the only wall climbing class. Nightshades would need a huge number of themselves to destroy a typical relic keep named guard. Hibernia will have trouble doing inner-door-only raids.
Midgard has shadowblades as the only wall climbing class. Shadowblades would need a huge number of themselves to destroy a typical relic keep named guard. Midgard will have trouble doing inner-door-only raids.
Albion has infiltrators and minstrels that can both climb walls. Infiltrators alone would need a huge number of themselves to destroy a typical relic keep named gaurd. Minstrels, on the other hand, have an ability that will allow then to easily overcome this new addition to relic kep defense.
Minstrals can charm pets. I've seen minstrels charm and hold level 53-54 pets with little effort. Due to the way NPCs handle buffs, a level 53-54 pet, with red cleric buffs can survive quite a long time against high level NPCs. I have used level 54 templars who can parry, from Hadrien's Wall, buffed with red druid buffs, to kill border keep guards at sauvage with minimal healing.
The minstrel has the ability to climb a keep wall, call the pet to himself using the "here" command (the pet WILL walk through the wall/doors to get to his master), then set it to attack the new named guards. 3 or 4 minstrels with buffed pets can kill these guards and since the guards are locked into place, they won't chase down the minstrel.
Albion can still perform 3rd-door-only relic raids.
This is not good considering Albion already has the best set of character to perform relic raids. Paladins can engage named guards, using their heal chant to ensure maintained aggro, while raids kill the normal guards. Minstrels are given SoS, which practically guarantees that milegate defense will fail.
Now they have the ability to be the only realm that can deal with named guards placed statically inside the keep and stillperform 3rd-door-only raids.
***EDIT TO EXPOIND ON TITLE***
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kevsmart
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Date Posted:
8/13/03 11:42am
Subject:
RE: Dev, Please Read Concerning Relic Keeps
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Got news for ya, Midgard can still do it too, they just did on Pendragon this weekend.
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Gris_Crackdealer
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Date Posted:
8/13/03 11:45am
Subject:
RE: Dev, Please Read Concerning Relic Keeps
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did they take the closest keep to the relic fort? if so, they removed the inner guards.
My concern is more along the lines of warning. taking the closest keep removes the guards but alerts the realm to you rintention. using the minstrel thing, it's possible to get inside the keep and delay the one guard spam that will happen until the doors are almost down.
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kevsmart
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Date Posted:
8/13/03 11:56am
Subject:
RE: Dev, Please Read Concerning Relic Keeps
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Only keep they had was Beno. They took their power relic back from Alb as well as Alb's. Two groups I think?
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Gris_Crackdealer
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Date Posted:
8/13/03 12:43pm
Subject:
RE: Dev, Please Read Concerning Relic Keeps
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there's issues if 2 groups took a relic, doesn't matter what strategy they used.
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{old}Samuelson_Fletcher
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Date Posted:
8/14/03 5:39am
Subject:
RE: Dev, Please Read Concerning Relic Keeps
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If 2 groups take a relic there are issues. I'm agreeing with you. However, the issues may not be game-mechanics. The issues may be personal (people may be sleeping). I remember when the first relic was taken on my first server. It was done with one group.
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hibslyzer
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Date Posted:
8/14/03 5:58am
Subject:
RE: Dev, Please Read Concerning Relic Keeps
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2 groups is a zerg on pend, send it thru feedback forum
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Gris_Crackdealer
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Date Posted:
8/14/03 6:22am
Subject:
RE: Dev, Please Read Concerning Relic Keeps
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yeah, sorry to waste everyone's time by pointing out another screwing form mythic that effects everyone EXCEPT albion.
If I'd had know we were going to be comparing about 2 groups taking every keep on pendragon, then taking a relic on pendragon, to playing on live servers with more than 20 people per realm, i'd probably have not braught it up.
If I'd know were going to compare taking a relic on the first server you played on (1.5 years ago?) when the average server population was 1k total and no patches had upped relic keeps, I probably wouldn;t have posted.
Thank you for comparing two situations that are anything but what is experianced on live server to another albion stealth-love change.
Good Day all.
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Halitosinger
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Date Posted:
8/14/03 6:50am
Subject:
RE: Dev, Please Read Concerning Relic Keeps
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I totally agree with you. When minstrels first got the wall climbing ability I pointed this out. Albion has a distinct advantage in having more classes able to climb over to relic keeps' third doors.
Not only that, Hibernian NS's mostly always use alchemy as their tradeskill, thus Hib has hardly any NS ram operators. At least, this is the case in my server.
Having 2 wall climbing classes opens up many possibilities for Albion. It is IMHO a distinct unfair advantage. I never thought of the pet issue before though. That is a good point.
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downers
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Date Posted:
8/19/03 4:13pm
Subject:
RE: Dev, Please Read Concerning Relic Keeps
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Also, if the mids took their pow relic and alb's pow relic, then the guard spawn was significantly lowered.. being that alb now has 3 relics, so they had 5 before.
I agree gris, I hadn't thought of the pets either though. Whats worst is that, at least on lancelot, Alb is the only realm with the #s to really pull off a full on RR.
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Kilteer
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Title: Lawful Bastard
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Date Posted:
8/20/03 8:49am
Subject:
RE: Dev, Please Read Concerning Relic Keeps
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"did they take the closest keep to the relic fort? if so, they removed the inner guards."
From the Herald:
"- There is a small change to how some guards will now handle relic raids. For every Relic Keep, the interior doors will now be guarded by named guards from the keep that is closest to the other Relic Keep in that realm. For example, the interior doors of Castle Excalibur are now being guarded by Hurbury Knights."
Who cares if they took out the keep closest to the relic keep...
On Hib/Bedevere, we just recently retrieved our Melee Relic... and everyone is incredibly paranoid about Dun Aillinne. When I point out that there is no reason to be paranoid about Aillinne, they ask if I read the patch notes. I did. As you can see above, the courtyard guards for Lamfhota are from Dun Scathaig. So, why the paranoia about Dun Aillinne? (We only have our Melee Relic, so enemies can't have a corpse summoner.)
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