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Topic:
My Tests of the dark line Pets
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Mordun
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Date Posted:
1/9/07 9:21am
Subject:
My Tests of the dark line Pets
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I put this in my other thread but thought it deserved its own thread for this.
Testing done last night.
On a real life target not a test dummy.
Lich commander. the Debuff is a separate resist from the DD. The debuff gets resisted ALOT. Damage from the commander befor the debuff lands is about 90 points. the sup pets hit for about 70 to 80. This is on a skald that had 22% cold resist with no casted resists up. Once the debuff would land the lich hit for about 110 and the sub pets for right at 100.
When the pets start to cast they run up to the target. The commander runs to around 800 range before it will cast and the sub pets even closer. So the pets are well within the combat area. You can not hold them back with you and set them to nuke a target.
The sub Pets do not assist and actually are worse then before. I dueled a friends BD. He has 3 mystics up and set his pets to attack my commander. I had my pets on pasive just standing there. The lich started casting on my commander along with 1 of the mystics. the other 2 mystics took random targets and started casting. They would not even stay on target. They would randomly change their target. One minut one would cast on me the next minute it would start casting on a sub pet. All the Time I just stood there with pets on passive.
Summary
The pets are garbage.
1. Much lower damage against a real target then many are trying to say.
2. They run in to cast not stay back at range.
3. They do not assist. you can not make them assist. They grab random targets and change targets at random.
Oh yeah and the commander is still blue con so dont expect him to live long at all.
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Mord Ironbreaker Volkmar <Souls of Legend> " DAOC vs WoW players would be lopsided. With 5000 DAOC players Pumling 100,000 WoW players in RvR daily"... forget who posted it RIP DAOC the better game that no one still plays. http://gimpchimp.etilader.com/
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Ranorian_Syraandor
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Title: Outraged Friar
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Feb '03
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Date Posted:
1/9/07 9:54am
Subject:
RE: My Tests of the dark line Pets
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I dueled a fully buffed Valkyrie several times with my Darkness pets. The pets were NOT buffed. Using the "debilitating" option for the commander, they got her to 75% before they even got to me and the pets. I was then able to kite her extremely easily, basically slaughtering her. If she stopped at the pets, I went to down with the spec DD.
I am *extremely* happy with the mystics. I would not be surprised if we get whines about it.
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Ranorian Syraandor 50th RR5L0 Friar  (Retired) Ragnvatr 50th Bonedancer (Gareth, Inactive) Vincerimus Viveo 50th RR2 Necromancer Tintagel/Alb and Lamorak/Alb Citius Altius Fortius
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Mordun
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Date Posted:
1/9/07 10:00am
Subject:
RE: My Tests of the dark line Pets
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Im happy for you. Im glad you fight alot of visible solo tanks.
For group fights they are horible.
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Mord Ironbreaker Volkmar <Souls of Legend> " DAOC vs WoW players would be lopsided. With 5000 DAOC players Pumling 100,000 WoW players in RvR daily"... forget who posted it RIP DAOC the better game that no one still plays. http://gimpchimp.etilader.com/
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Ranorian_Syraandor
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Title: Outraged Friar
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Date Posted:
1/9/07 10:06am
Subject:
RE: My Tests of the dark line Pets
- Date Edited:
1/9/07 10:10am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Ranorian_Syraandor
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Okay, suppression got gutted. Oh well. It was a cheese line anyway.
However. Darkness is now very powerful. If an opponent doesn't deal with those pets, and quickly, they're in for severe problems. In a group fight, you send your pets in against a caster or support, then run the other way away from the casters. They then have to choose. Either they mez you, or they mez the pets. Either way, someone is still nuking them, and interrupting them.
And yes, I know I'll get shouted down about this, and that there are a million different possibilities here. I also know that all the negative situations will be brought up by bonedancer players that can't handle losing that stupid lifetap. But this is NOT as bad as everyone is making it out to be, and I'm very pleased with the direction Mythic is taking with this.
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Ranorian Syraandor 50th RR5L0 Friar (Retired) Ragnvatr 50th Bonedancer (Gareth, Inactive) Vincerimus Viveo 50th RR2 Necromancer Tintagel/Alb and Lamorak/Alb Citius Altius Fortius
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Lawfer_Valeth
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Title: The Humanoid Typhoon
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Date Posted:
1/9/07 10:52am
Subject:
- Date Edited:
1/9/07 10:53am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Lawfer_Valeth
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Mordun posted:
Im happy for you. Im glad you fight alot of visible solo tanks.
For group fights they are horible.
you just said u tested them on a solo skald? how does that relate to grp vs. grp combat?
edit: I mean so what if they dont assist all the time, that is 4 targets that will be perma-snared and interupted, while taking some decent damage, not to mention the commander casting disease.
what kind of pets did you run in 8v8 when you played kyndy?
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Ladon_Drakonis
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Date Posted:
1/9/07 11:15am
Subject:
RE: My Tests of the dark line Pets
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"edit: I mean so what if they dont assist all the time, that is 4 targets that will be perma-snared and interupted, while taking some decent damage, not to mention the commander casting disease."
do you not use CC or something? ;x
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Mordun
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Date Posted:
1/9/07 11:34am
Subject:
RE: My Tests of the dark line Pets
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I ran 2 mid level mystic being that Im 38/38 spec. I normally kept the pets passived alot unless I used ML9. It was a little extra interrupts then just me.
The major thing is those pets are not going to get you a group over any other class. Pets are junk in rvr unless it was a ML9 tank pet. even then they died fast normally.
Whats your DPS after this patch lawfer?? a baseline 179 nuke that every caster in the game has as a bare minimum. The only casters that use a 179 nuke are debuff nukers and AlB LT. At least the LT has a 5% bonus on it.
As soon as your commander dies. BDs become the worst DPS caster in the game. You lose all your interupts. Everything. All of your power is tied up into buggy Pets. That dont do what you tell them to do most of the time.
Lets list known pet bugs:
Failure to move on to bridges some times.
Pathing on bridges. They just get lost and never return.
pathing in and around structures of any kind.
You send them to kill a target and the Sub pet will not return if the target is not killed. they just stand there.
Pet will not return when called back until they run all the way up to their target first.
Those are just the bugs off the top of my head. Now lets list other pet problems.
Blue con so they die to magic damage very fast. (kill the commander all die)
Blue con so are Mezed and rooted for full duration. ( demez only works on 1 pet at a time GL on demezing them all)
will not assist on the target you tell them to attack. No way to make them all assist
randomly target CCed players breaking the CC.
Pets will not cast at long range. they run up close before starting to cast.
if you think your commander wont be killed early you are wrong. it will be " kill the commander and the Bd is easy to deal with or ignor till the end" ( and they are easy to kill) You will have lost a large chunk of your DPS. you your self might do ok lawfer since your high rank but the average BD has o dependable DPS any longer and has no utility ether. So why would any one group one again?
also for the high rank DPS BDS. half of your DPS is now from your pets. None of your RAs will effect their damage. There is no way to increase the Pets spell damage. So your RR is not nearly as effective now ether.
BDs will be confined to bad pugs and PVE unless your high RR grouping with friends. ( hello thane and warlock anyone?)
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Mord Ironbreaker Volkmar <Souls of Legend> " DAOC vs WoW players would be lopsided. With 5000 DAOC players Pumling 100,000 WoW players in RvR daily"... forget who posted it RIP DAOC the better game that no one still plays. http://gimpchimp.etilader.com/
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Zultanious
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Date Posted:
1/9/07 12:09pm
Subject:
RE: My Tests of the dark line Pets
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bone army line? 
(ps necros have some problems except when our pet paths badly we die :P)
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Zultan 17 Witch Elf of Azazel Minizultt 50 RR6 ML10 Warrior of Bedevere *Retired* Iownlee 50 RR5 ML10 Reaver of Iseult *Retired* http://gimpchimp.etilader.com/display.php?user=Zultan
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Lawfer_Valeth
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Title: The Humanoid Typhoon
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Date Posted:
1/9/07 1:48pm
Subject:
RE: My Tests of the dark line Pets
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Mordun posted:
I ran 2 mid level mystic being that Im 38/38 spec. I normally kept the pets passived alot unless I used ML9. It was a little extra interrupts then just me.
The major thing is those pets are not going to get you a group over any other class. Pets are junk in rvr unless it was a ML9 tank pet. even then they died fast normally.
Whats your DPS after this patch lawfer?? a baseline 179 nuke that every caster in the game has as a bare minimum. The only casters that use a 179 nuke are debuff nukers and AlB LT. At least the LT has a 5% bonus on it.
As soon as your commander dies. BDs become the worst DPS caster in the game. You lose all your interupts. Everything. All of your power is tied up into buggy Pets. That dont do what you tell them to do most of the time.
Lets list known pet bugs:
Failure to move on to bridges some times.
Pathing on bridges. They just get lost and never return.
pathing in and around structures of any kind.
You send them to kill a target and the Sub pet will not return if the target is not killed. they just stand there.
Pet will not return when called back until they run all the way up to their target first.
Those are just the bugs off the top of my head. Now lets list other pet problems.
Blue con so they die to magic damage very fast. (kill the commander all die)
Blue con so are Mezed and rooted for full duration. ( demez only works on 1 pet at a time GL on demezing them all)
will not assist on the target you tell them to attack. No way to make them all assist
randomly target CCed players breaking the CC.
Pets will not cast at long range. they run up close before starting to cast.
if you think your commander wont be killed early you are wrong. it will be " kill the commander and the Bd is easy to deal with or ignor till the end" ( and they are easy to kill) You will have lost a large chunk of your DPS. you your self might do ok lawfer since your high rank but the average BD has o dependable DPS any longer and has no utility ether. So why would any one group one again?
also for the high rank DPS BDS. half of your DPS is now from your pets. None of your RAs will effect their damage. There is no way to increase the Pets spell damage. So your RR is not nearly as effective now ether.
BDs will be confined to bad pugs and PVE unless your high RR grouping with friends. ( hello thane and warlock anyone?)
I just don't understand how you could have run the 2 mystics before the patch, and now seem to argue that these pets or worse, or use the fact that they don't assist against the patch, when mystic pets didnt assist in the firstplace. this has nothing to do with whether the BD is broken, or has no dps, I am just questioning some of your logic in this post. Yes I understand that you hate the BD changes, because it doesnt allow you to play your class like you did in the past, but I dont see how, after running mystics pre-patch, you can look on the pets so negatively. Yes they can be cc'd. well they could be cc'd pre-patch, with good positioning it should be np to cast your pet demezz, or have a pac healer take a second to demezz a pet if he/she sees one mezzed. Yes they don't assist, and yes they can break cc, but honestly, How big of a factor is opening cc anymore? and thats pretty easy to remedy, keep your pets on passive.
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Well, that's just PRIME.
Too cool for Warhammer
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Eradiani
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Title: Moderator/EVE Vault Staff
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Date Posted:
1/9/07 1:57pm
Subject:
RE: My Tests of the dark line Pets
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because it takes like 3-4 nukes to kill the commander thus leaving the BD as an underpowered caster
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Lawfer_Valeth
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Date Posted:
1/9/07 2:02pm
Subject:
RE: My Tests of the dark line Pets
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took 3-4 before the patch, has anyone done any testing yet to magic damage on a fully buffed commander after they beefed up the magic resists?
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Ladon_Drakonis
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Date Posted:
1/9/07 2:04pm
Subject:
RE: My Tests of the dark line Pets
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a fully buffed commander does nothing for magic abs or hit points so dunno what that would matter, but no, the increases to magic resistance aren't exactly major, in the high-damage end of casters it'll stay the same amount of nukes maybe more to kill it
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Eradiani
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Date Posted:
1/9/07 2:07pm
Subject:
RE: My Tests of the dark line Pets
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well 1.. almost no one would be able to fully buff the pet, especially on classic servers
2, even if the BD had a bot to fully buff the pet instead of the rest of his/her group. with how much more damage is focused over to the BD pet, it better be near impossible to kill it.
somehow I doubt that even with the magic resists, it will be anywhere near an extra nuke or two to kill the pet. But yes please someone who has a bd test this for us and give us some numbers
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Mordun
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Date Posted:
1/9/07 2:21pm
Subject:
RE: My Tests of the dark line Pets
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" I just don't understand how you could have run the 2 mystics before the patch, and now seem to argue that these pets or worse, or use the fact that they don't assist against the patch,"
I did not rely on the sub pets to do anything really before the patch. if they did help it was nice but normally they just died fast. I was the one doing most of the work not my pets. Now you have to rely on those buggy POS pets for every thing from DPS to interrupts. hell you cant even make the sub pets attack who you want. they do what ever they feel like doing.
I was split spec I obviously dont like to rely on my pets to do much. All my sub pets are grey. Now your telling me that I cant do much I have to hope these POS pets will actually work for once and do it for me?
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Mord Ironbreaker Volkmar <Souls of Legend> " DAOC vs WoW players would be lopsided. With 5000 DAOC players Pumling 100,000 WoW players in RvR daily"... forget who posted it RIP DAOC the better game that no one still plays. http://gimpchimp.etilader.com/
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Choucroute
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Date Posted:
1/10/07 11:17am
Subject:
RE: My Tests of the dark line Pets
- Date Edited:
1/10/07 11:24am (2 edits total)
Edited By:
Choucroute
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At least the LT has a 5% bonus on it.
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LT never have had such a bonus, the 5% damage "bonus" is in relation to the type of the spell and translates into higher resist rate.
Let's try to fight a random high-red mob with LT and then DD, you'll see LT does much more damage but is resisted a lot.
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Lawfer_Valeth
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Title: The Humanoid Typhoon
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Date Posted:
1/10/07 4:40pm
Subject:
RE: My Tests of the dark line Pets
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I gotta say kyndy, I was on pend yesterday with my shaman friend, and had him stand exactly 1500 units away from my bonedancer, and had my pets attack, they started casting right where they stood, right next to me, didnt even try to move forward before nuking, and even with cap resists/50% cold resists(dread lich damage) the pets killed him pretty fast, and the entire time he was perma-diseased and snared, I see 50 dark being both a very viable 8v8 spec, and quite overpowered 1v1.
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