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Author	Topic: BD Subpet AI...yeah, I know...look anyway >=P
TheEnigmatik1 collection \| wishlist Posts: 3,937 Registered: Aug '05	Date Posted: 1/10/07 6:07pm Subject: BD Subpet AI...yeah, I know...look anyway >=P
	Ok, folks...in an attempt to make some sense of BD AI, I did something I'm loathe to do. I've spent the past 2 hours in PvE on Pendragon (PvE is bad enough for me. I hate it, ask any Devonite who knows me, they'll tell you...PvE on Pendragon is downright torture), and here's what I've come up with. Please note: this has no bearing on Suppression BDs, unless you run a Fossil Guardian (I think) as Fossil Healers don't do anything but run from any aggro they get and have no attacks. My little test was run using a Dread Lich, 1 Fossil Seer, 1 Fossil Mystic (I've always liked these guys in PvE, they seem to hit more than the Dread Commander did...even if it was for half the damage) and a level 24 Fossil Healer (summoned in that order). I've come to the conclusion that subpets breaking off from your assigned target have nothing to do with attacks to anyone or anything but the Bonedancer. I had my Lich attack 25 mobs individually first (using the damage attack option w/ taunt). Everything went as planned. The Lich plus the subpets annihilated the yellow and oj mobs I attacked. Then, I had my Lich attack 25 targets as before, but after he had aggro, I ran him through other aggressive mobs to see if there would be a target change. Not once did it happen. Nor when any subpet got aggro. In fact, on six different occassions my lowbie Fossil Healer got aggro by himself. The other 3 pets allowed him to die without so much as moving in his direction. Then I made the Lich attack 25 more targets. This time, however, I myself pulled additional creatures. As soon as I got hit each time, save one (in this scenario, the original target was higher con, ironically enough). The Fossil Seer would instantly change targets and attack speed debuff, disease then enter into melee with this purposefully pulled add. The Dread Lich and the Fossil Mystic would keep attacking the initial target until it was dead then they joined the Seer. For the last ten pulls, I made a point to body or DD pull a third mob, at which point, the Fossil Mystic would break off and begin nuking it. Provided the original mob hadn't been killed by this time, all three would be attacking different targets while the healer healed away. Finally, I reversed the summon order to see if that had any bearing on things. This is where it gets weird. Despite being summoned after the Lich and the Mystic, the Seer still broke off to attack the additional mob every time save one (12 out of 13). That one time, which was ironically the first, the Mystic broke off to try to draw the attention of the additional mob. So it seems that only attacks done to the Bonedancer will cause mobs to break off and seemingly do their own thing. Fossil Seers are infinitely more likely to break off and try to deal with adds that directly assault the BD way more than Mystics, regardless of summon order. Attacking a pet/subpet has no bearing on them doing this. And one pet for each add that attacks the BD is extremely likely to break off to try to get aggro (even in RvR). Additionally, passive does work...somewhat. I think everyone already knows this, but a pet/subpet will finish it's current attack action before breaking off from combat. I tried this three times and if a pet was mid-spell or attack, it wouldn't stop attacking until that attack had finished. For spell casting pets, this is bad simply because if you're putting pets on passive mid-fight in RvR, it's because your target has been CCed and you don't want them to break it. Well, if they've already started their casting/attack animation, they're going to break it anyway. So in order to curtail this, you'd have to be forwarned about your CCer dropping a mezz or root on a target or be extremely attentive to what your pets are on so you can preempt them jacking up well-placed/timed CC. What does this mean? In theory, that if you sic your pets on a target and keep yourself out of the reach of tanks. Your pets should stay on their original target until it's dead. Each additional target that attacks you will cause first a Fossil Seer, then a Fossil Mystic to break off and attack them to draw their attention. Unfortunately, once they've done this you can only reel them in by putting them on passive (hopefully before any important CC has landed) or release them. Feel free to test this theory yourself. Maybe what I was seeing is an anomoly...and if so, I'd like to know so I don't go forward under an incorrect assumption. I'm honestly bored of PvE/testing atm. I'll mix it up some later (if I'm still awake) to see if there is any correlation to summon order if using the same kinds of pets. I hope someone finds this even remotely helpful. /salute -----signature----- Vael - 21 Swordmaster <Sacred Band> - Sylvania Ghauranax - 11 Marauder - Ostermark Gurthan - 12 Black Orc - Mordheim Hands washed of Dark Age of Camelot!
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Ironknuckles_MLF collection \| wishlist Posts: 1,451 Registered: Dec '04	Date Posted: 1/10/07 6:19pm Subject: RE: BD Subpet AI...yeah, I know...look anyway >=P
	Well, I know from the past when I used 1 dread, 1 guardian, 1 healer for pve...that if there were 2 mobs, i would target 1, hit attack button for pet, then target next mob and hit attack target button. The guardian would still go after the first mob, and dread would go after 2nd. On a side note, whenever I log into Pend now to test changes, for some reason I feel like the guy in the 1st Mummy movie (the one with Brenden fraiser, the guy I'm talking about is the one with the glasses who gets his tongue and eyes taken out, but is still alive). Hehe not sure why, guess its because I feel so much less powerful and neutered and helpless. Anyone else feel like this? -----signature----- x´¨) Ironicles \| Sorcerer \| Azazel ¸.·´¸.·´¨).· Zoo \| Zealot \| Azazel (¸.·´ (¸.·´.· ^ ^ WAR ^ ^ \| v v DAoC v v .·´ ¸.·* Ironknuckles \| 11L6 Troll BD \| Devon (¸.·´ http://gimpchimp.etilader.com/s.php?u=Ironknuckles
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TheEnigmatik1 collection \| wishlist Posts: 3,937 Registered: Aug '05	Date Posted: 1/10/07 6:24pm Subject: RE: BD Subpet AI...yeah, I know...look anyway >=P - Date Edited: 1/10/07 6:24pm (1 edits total) Edited By: TheEnigmatik1
	Ironknuckles_MLF posted: Well, I know from the past when I used 1 dread, 1 guardian, 1 healer for pve...that if there were 2 mobs, i would target 1, hit attack button for pet, then target next mob and hit attack target button. The guardian would still go after the first mob, and dread would go after 2nd. LOL @ The Mummy reference. I think that's because of you actually telling your minions to change targets. I didn't at all. I wanted to see what would cause them to change targets of their own accord (which is the biggest gripe many of us have had with the active subpets). Me being attacked by a different creature was the only thing that I can decipher that would divert them off their original target. Now granted, it's probably different in RvR as I'm sure (according to others) the presence of enemy healers plays a role. But I guess we'll have to wait until this is patched to know that part for certain. -----signature----- Vael - 21 Swordmaster <Sacred Band> - Sylvania Ghauranax - 11 Marauder - Ostermark Gurthan - 12 Black Orc - Mordheim Hands washed of Dark Age of Camelot!
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skaggerak collection \| wishlist Posts: 443 Registered: Aug '03	Date Posted: 1/10/07 8:55pm Subject: RE: BD Subpet AI...yeah, I know...look anyway >=P
	The pet AI has always sent the subpet guardian after adds
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TheEnigmatik1 collection \| wishlist Posts: 3,937 Registered: Aug '05	Date Posted: 1/11/07 5:35am Subject: RE: BD Subpet AI...yeah, I know...look anyway >=P
	skaggerak posted: The pet AI has always sent the subpet guardian after adds Yes, but only after adds that directly try to affect the Bonedancer himself. This means that the AI is not actually random and is calcuated to deal with adds. Which means that it can be controlled to a point also. By positioning and keeping yourself out of harm's way as much as humanly possible (ala a standard caster), you should greatly minimize your active subpets penchant to attack random targets "wantonly." -----signature----- Vael - 21 Swordmaster <Sacred Band> - Sylvania Ghauranax - 11 Marauder - Ostermark Gurthan - 12 Black Orc - Mordheim Hands washed of Dark Age of Camelot!
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-Rags- collection \| wishlist Title: Moderator FOTM Warrior INC! Posts: 18,568 Registered: Aug '04	Date Posted: 1/11/07 6:41am Subject: RE: BD Subpet AI...yeah, I know...look anyway >=P
	yes... but how often does that happen in RvR? AE Debuffs, CC, Damage... quite often you have more than one person trying to take a piece out of you, hence the pets going crazy in RvR -----signature----- "My days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle" - Mal =-=-=-=-=-=-= When squirrels are outlawed, only outlaws will have squirrels." - PanzerBoxb
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TheEnigmatik1 collection \| wishlist Posts: 3,937 Registered: Aug '05	Date Posted: 1/11/07 10:36am Subject: RE: BD Subpet AI...yeah, I know...look anyway >=P
	-Rags- posted: yes... but how often does that happen in RvR? AE Debuffs, CC, Damage... quite often you have more than one person trying to take a piece out of you, hence the pets going crazy in RvR That's the caveat, I think Rags. Unless these things are coming from tanks...which is highly unlikely. It doesn't matter. I'm not trying to say that it's always going to be a good thing. But a vast majority of the attacks my Dark BD took in battle when I ran him were from enemy casters/healers. By nature of my spec, I had to stay the hell away from tanks as much as humanly possible. But if you have your Dread Lich and your Fossil subpets all attacking/interrupting different casters/healers in group vs group play...who cares? I'm just trying to find a silver lining here somewhere. My gut tells me it exists...I just haven't been able to pin it down with quantitative proof yet. -----signature----- Vael - 21 Swordmaster <Sacred Band> - Sylvania Ghauranax - 11 Marauder - Ostermark Gurthan - 12 Black Orc - Mordheim Hands washed of Dark Age of Camelot!
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