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Topic:
Necro casting speeds - Numbers inside (needs proper real testing to fully verify)
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Galac_Usul
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Jul '02
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Date Posted:
9/12/05 3:31pm
Subject:
Necro casting speeds - Numbers inside (needs proper real testing to fully verify)
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Ok, ive been fiddling around with 'what ifs' with our class compared to other LTing classes, and also how mythic has coded certain things into the pet.
This topic is going to be soley around casting speeds related to shade and pet, as well as a few small comparisons to other LTers(sorc/cabby) casting speeds.
If anyone finds the numbers inaccurate or completely wrong, feel free to pinch in.
Heres the site for the casting speed calculator.
http://mortal.peril.org/jack/daoc/dmgcalc.html
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- FACTS -
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Lets get a few facts out that we know about necros down on the table first. If anyone knows the exact link to prove or disprove, feel free to post, or if you have other facts to bring to the table that effect casting speed.
1. There is no dexterity on a base summoned pet. The only stats the necro pet actually gets to increase dexterity is off of items that the necromancer is currently wearing and buffs on the servant its self.
2. ToA +Casting speed does not effect servant casting speeds at all, only shade casted speeds.
3. Necro pets have no buff caps, so the possible added dexterity is greater on the servant then on a player.
4. No RA's increases the dexterity or speed of the servant casting speed. It does however increase the shades.
5. All necro spells are 3.0 casting speeds except for summoning pet and true instants. (con, str/con) So almost ALL spells will have very similar casting speeds EXCEPT for shade casted, servant instants. Theres a difference between them and ill bring that up. Shade casted, with capped possible dex and ToA casting speed will be noticeably faster then servant.
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-Possible dexterity for shade and servant-
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Number crunching time(easy stuff). I did a little showing of this in another post, but im doing full scale on this one.
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!!!Only using 50+1 enh clerics with 25% ToA bonus and top buffs as example!!!
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All buffs recieve 25% bonus off 51 effective enh, and 25% off of ToA items.
(Servant)
Base dex - 48
Spec dex - 75
Base = (48 * 1.25) * 1.25 = (60) * 1.25 = 75 Base con
Spec = (75 * 1.25) * 1.25 = (93.75) * 1.25 = 117.1875 rounded to 117
117 + 75 = 192 dex
So, the possible dex off buffs for a necro is 192 dexterity.
The maximum that a necro can gain from items is 101 dex.
192 + 101 = 293 possible dexterity
So, 293 dexterity is the absolute cap at which servants, at this time, can have.
(Shade)
There is a cap to players possible bonus from buffs.
You do not need the ToA bonus to reach this cap if you use all red buffs.
So...
Base = 48 * 1.25 = 60(cap from base)
Spec = 75 * 1.25 = 93(rounded down)(cap from spec)
93 + 60 = 153
Possible dexterity a shade(player) can gain from buffs is 153.
Same amount for items is 101.
153 + 101 = 254 possible dex from buffs and items.
Now, the shade has a minimum possible +dexterity from race stats and reaching level 50.
Lets stick with the most common practice, and that is: 50 Inconnu with +10 dex at starting.
At level 50, you will have a 103 base dexterity.
103 base + 101 items + 153 buffs = 357 possible dexterity on shade without added Aug Dex.
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-Casting Speeds-
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That means the shade can have a possible 357 dexterity and the servant can have a possible 293 dexterity.
357 - 293 = 64
... meaning the shade can have 64 more dexterity then the servant. Thats quite a bit when the general forumla accepted by most players after 300 dexterity is approximately 1% casting speed for 6 dexterity. Approximately 10% fasting casting speed of shade over servant.
With 10% ToA casting speed added to the shade, it will net approximately 20% faster casting speed then the pet.
Lets put them into this calculator to start off to see if this thing is at least SOMEWHAT accurate.
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(Servant)
293 dex, 0% ToA speed, 0 AD, 3.0 delve casting time.
Putting that in yields a 1.8870 Cast Time.
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(Shade)
357 dex, 0% ToA speed, 0 AD, 3.0 delve casting time.
1.5030 Cast Time.
357 dex, 10% ToA speed, 0 AD, 3.0 delve casting time.
1.3527 Cast Time.
357 dex, 10% ToA speed, 5 AD(405 dex), 3.0 delve casting time.
1.2000 Cast time (capped for 3.0 delve)
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These are all hard numbers to what the current situation is.
Now, lets look at a sorcer's LT. The main difference between our LTs and theirs is the 2.5 speed delve.
Assume both chose same race and starting stats as the shade.
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(Sorcerer)
357 dex, 0% ToA speed, 0 AD, 2.5 delve casting speed
1.2525 Cast Time
357 dex, 10% ToA speed, 0 AD, 2.5 delve casting speed
1.1273 Cast Time
357 dex, 10% ToA speed, 5 AD, 2.5 delve casting speed
1.0000 Cast Time
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Quite different, no?
Now, hib and mid LTers are all the same speeds, but some being lower or higher delve. Hibs have lower delve LTs, and mids have higher.
So the difference between a fastest casting sorcerer's LTs and a necros servant is .8870 casting time. Same delve, slightly different resist tables however. But, they will nearly do twice the DPS we can (sadly enough to my eyes) with same intelligence, damage bonus, +skills, and resist piercing.
The difference between the fastest possible shade and sorcerer is .2 seconds, HOWEVER, the delves for all shade casted spells are MUCH weaker then sorcerers. The only advantage we have in terms of out damaging them is to double tap, which do more damage then them in straight up fights. If we had a sorc and a necro, within 500 units of each other and both MOC 3ed, the necro would eventually win so long as they double tap. If they dont and only use one of the 2 spells, the Sorcerer would slaughter the necro.
Now, before I proceed, lets see if that calculator is at least fairly accurate in terms of the dexterity forumas to modify Casting Time.
Lets go off shade/servant example I had from above about shade casting 20% faster then the servant off base and ToA speed.
[Future work - Cant do the formulas atm because I have to head home in just a few minutes, so ill try to work on these tonight/tomorrow]
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-What if's and changes that would be good for necros in terms of casting speeds-
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Lets see a few factors why our DPS is so vastly less then a sorcerers for main LTs.
1. Sorcerers have 2.5 delve spells while necros have 3.0 delve.
2. They have a base 64 more dex then a servant could ever have.
3. Sorcerer gets use out of ToA Casting speed.
4. They get effects for AD or other casting speed bonuses, increasing the dex barrier by ALOT.
What I would personally like to see happen is either have the base 103 dex from the shade transfer to the pet, or have a combination of other things such as enabling ToA casting speed bonus to the necro pet, have actual dex transfer to the pet (dex buffs still effect absorption), or reduce necro LT/PT to 2.5 seconds.
I cant type any more atm because I have to pack up and head home.
Feel free to pick apart stuff or add opinions, feelings, and thoughts on the matter.
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http://camelotmonkey.com/showchars.php?user=borlac I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. Where the fear has gone there will
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Zultanious
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Posts:
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Nov '03
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Date Posted:
9/12/05 4:30pm
Subject:
RE: Necro casting speeds - Numbers inside (needs proper real testing to fully verify)
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Nice little report... no one responded yet and i figured you deserve a bumper for all the work you did on that.
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Zultan 10 Witch Elf of Azazel Minizultt 50 RR6 ML10 Warrior of Bedevere *Retired* Iownlee 50 RR5 ML10 Reaver of Iseult *Retired* http://gimpchimp.etilader.com/display.php?user=Zultan
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OSULugan
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Title: Vanilla Ice Posse
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Date Posted:
9/12/05 5:47pm
Subject:
RE: Necro casting speeds - Numbers inside (needs proper real testing to fully verify)
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Only error I see is that buff-cap for players is 155 total, not 153.
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And then, I, Gandalf, proceeded to Drink Sauron's Milkshake!
I roll 20s
I'm kind of a big deal.
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