heya guys, just wanted to bring out some ongoing issues with bonedancer class.

Many of these are things that mythic has failed to fix since the class has come out so I am hoping that here, where the admins actually care about broken issues..something might happen. I understand that there are lots of other broken things atm, but i would just like to say that the stuff I am listing make many parts of the class specs basically unplayable.

Some of the things I am listing below are ongoing issues with the class and also some things that have come up just on purga. Tthe bonedancer team lead notes can be found HERE (http://www.camelotherald.com/teamleads/tl_reports.php?mode=view&id=99&tlid=37) for reference.


Broken /missing BD components

1. Pets have no weapons- This is a PURGA related problem. This is a major issue because bone army spec relies extensively on the pets to actually do damage. THe commander/warrior pets are not doing styles without access to the weapons. .thus their damage has been really pathetic. Very difficult to kill even yellow mobs, much less players. Also archer pets are not using a bow to attack. Will it be possible to add back weapons to the pets along with their access to corresponding styles for those weapons to at least live standards?

2. Darkness line pets are going into melee. - This is also a live server issue. WHenever the attack command is given, many times the Mystic and shaman pets will go into melee mode on mob along with commander instead of casting/debuffing like they are supposed to do. In melee mode they do basically no dmg and offer nothing in dps Perhaps some code needs to be put in to keep them ranged attack only so they can continue casting?

3. Pets are not assisting commander- This is an issue on live as well, where the melee pets will break off from commander to attack other targets. This significantly reduces their performance because dmg is not concentrated and they are easily beaten one vs one. This makes bone army spec almost completely useless and also a liability (due ot breaking crowd control) unless the bone dancer is only fighting one opponent. Bone army spec bone dancer has very little survivability without pets, since they do not have access high lvl lifetap nor any signifiacant damage spell that will be of much use in rvr. Bone army has to spec to 48 to have access to pets that are high enough con to be of any threat. Please add code to make pets assist commander target or the target the player selects.

4. Ranged Commander is necessary - This is an issue on both Purga and Live. The bone commander pet is a liability to bone army and Darkness spec bone dancers because the pets are linked to its death. The commander will charge into mobs or people and will die, taking the other pets with it. This problem is very concerning for bone army spec because it utilizes archer pets which are supposed to ranged. Whenever commander charges into players/mobs it dies and makes any benifit of having the range on archer pets worthless. For darkness spec , the commander also makes it so that the debuffer/caster pets wil die (nullifying any advantage that ranged pets/players should have) and leave the bone dancer with just a DD attack. This is not an issue for supression spec bds because their healer pets heal them when set on passive and thus commander isnt really in any danger as the caster is using mainly life taps for that purpose of damage. (although they have their own issue atm with healers not healing which was already discussed i think)

Please seriously look into adding a ranged commander option or perhaps makign option for commander to bepassive while minions attack as suggested by the Bone dancer Team leaders for past several years as this really kills much of the effectivness of the bone army and darkness specs.


There are probably other issues atm but i think for now these are the major ones that really break the class into being basically unplayable on purga and live atm. I am not asking anyone to make anyone overpowered or anything, but please if you can, try to fix these things so that the class specs can actually work =)


thank you

i just wanted to point out that pets are not a formidable method of damage on any freeshard.. all pets do crappy damage, so even if bonedancers were given styles (i mean, you guys are already lifetapping at capped damage regardless of targets resists) the pet damage would still be extremely low

i just wanted to point out that pets are not a formidable method of damage on any freeshard.. all pets do crappy damage, so even if bonedancers were given styles (i mean, you guys are already lifetapping at capped damage regardless of targets resists) the pet damage would still be extremely low


yes i know pets are doing low dmg generally..but im talking about at least making the class abilities perform in the proper manner. Tweaking pet dmg can follow if it needs to be done. Just for now, things should just be getting to be made to where they are working. That is all i am saying. Even if pet dmg remains a bit low, at least its working and can be improved upon later.

I would like to add that non suppression spec bonedancers do not have the access to high lvl life tap abilities and their survivability using supression spec after obtaining high lvl darkness or bone army is very low. They will usually only be able to spec around 24 into supression which grants only the lvl 22 life tap....thus they rely more upon their base spec skills and pets to do dmg.

Not sure but isnt it a bug if you have more than 2 healers and a bone commander ?


Seen this today and in the past if its a bug.

i don't know how bd pets work on purga but on live you can have up to 3 pets. i don't know the exact formula, but you can make 3 of the lowest level (15 and 18) grey border pets and probably 1 of the highest (red border 45 and 48) with a low one. not too sure how it works exactly

Well today i witnessed a BD with 3 green healers and one blue commander.


He had 6 hibs on him and no one could kill him.

Well today i witnessed a BD with 3 green healers and one blue commander.


He had 6 hibs on him and no one could kill him.


Not sure but isnt it a bug if you have more than 2 healers and a bone commander ?


Seen this today and in the past if its a bug.

The commander's level is 80% of the caster's level (82% for the final pet in the line)

Multiple minons can be summoned, depending on the casters level. Each minion's level is 75% of the caster's level or the maximum given in the spell, which ever is lower. There is a total hard level cap of 75 for controlled minions; this means at the highest level the 3rd minion pet will need to be of a lower level to summon.

This means you can have 3 minions aside from comander total. The following is table of the fossil healers and the lvl bd obtains them....

18 Summon Bonepatcher Max L18
24 Summon Bonefixer Max L22
30 Summon Bonebuilder Max L27
36 Summon Bonehealer Max L31
42 Summon Boneknitter Max L36
48 Summon Bonemender Max L45

pell Level - Minion Name - Amount Healed Per Cast

18 - Bonepatcher - 67
24 - Bonefixer - 82
30 - Bonebuilder - 101
36 - Bonehealer - 116
42 - Boneknitter - 135
48 - Bonemender - 138

i dont think its possible to cast 3 lvl 36 pets though..those would be the green ones...but you could have ag reen pet and some greys...so maybe that is what you saw?

It could be something going on though....but would need some proof and this really isnt the thread for that... this is the thread to try to get some totaly broken (not working at all) things done =)

fulgore insta lifetab is fixed test with mom5 you hit xxx for 375 dmg on capped resist

1)I have no info on sub pet styles,only info on commander styles.Please find some info related to this first.
And the problem with weapon is not so important,it's just a visual one,but I think I have modified pet appearance to 1.83 live patch,so it looks strange to me that you don't see pet weapons.

2)Also small info on pet spells here,is mystic supposed to cast snare dd or a simpe one?
And as for shammy pet - what debuffs does he have?I think he casts disease,mb something else.

3)Sub pets are always attacking the same target as commander,so the assist is working good.This is what I remember from my testings.

4)This is an interesting idea.I will do this after I finish other important things.

1)I have no info on sub pet styles,only info on commander styles.Please find

some info related to this first.
And the problem with weapon is not so important,it's just a visual one,but I think I have

modified pet appearance to 1.83 live patch,so it looks strange to me that you don't see pet

weapons.

2)Also small info on pet spells here,is mystic supposed to cast snare dd or a simpe one?
And as for shammy pet - what debuffs does he have?I think he casts disease,mb something

else.

3)Sub pets are always attacking the same target as commander,so the assist is working

good.This is what I remember from my testings.

4)This is an interesting idea.I will do this after I finish other important things.


Hi lebron, thanks for replying. I have been trying to collect some hard data to backup
my suspecions and explain some of the things that occured to me while doing preliminary
testing, as well as offer incite into how the abilities/situation should be behaving. I
believe you asked for some of this data specificially for the pet info so here goes. Since
i first posted I have done some more testing and have found some additional issues while
looking over abilities, as well as resolving in part some of the prior concerns.

The following will hopefully provide you with enough resources to perhaps be able to do
something if you feel it is needed. I will make several reply posts to seperate each

response to your inquiries to make for easier reading.

Previously known Issues

1. Pets have No weapons; -- During my initial tests i found that the pets were
not displaying their weapons while attacking and by also looking at the poor damage that
was being done, also assumed that they were just doing 'bare fist' dmg. no styles, nothing.

just default attack such as found in this
screenshot (http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/6766/petsnoweapon9mc.jpg)t i took

when they did it. . During this the commander was also going weaponless as you can see

with a closer inspection
here (http://img385.imageshack.us/img385/6646/commandernowep6yq.jpg)

After closer examination of the commander's damage, I have concluded that this may be some

sort of display bug for the commander at least. I notice that it only occurs when you
summon out a commander using the silver tower shield. If you call out the model that uses

the Large Block shield you get the normal result and animations
here (http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/4354/commanderusingstyle20vo.jpg)

However i would like to draw attention to the next picture in which shows the minion pets
with weapons equiped on their backs while going into melee mode with bare fists. This can
be seen here (http://img264.imageshack.us/img264/3825/backweaponequiped0vp.jpg)

I am still concerned about the commander and minion damage however...as i delved their
respective petinfo screens and found out that they are supposed to have the same dmg..as

seen here (http://img385.imageshack.us/img385/9258/commanderdelve1ch.jpg) and

http://img257.imageshack
.us/img257/7294/soldierdelve3nf.jpg (http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/7294/soldierdelve3nf.jpg)

I had the exact same bone army spec on live and i believe the damage from the minions is
way off, but atm i do not have physical proof to show, but that will hopefully soon be
resolved.

If anyone could clarify what the values under the Damage heading mean in actual terms such

as for the value in the screen shots 45 respectively, then that might clarify the issue.
If it is a pure damage value then I can say that at the time of that screen shot the pets
were not doing 45 dmg, even on neutral resist mobs. At the time they were doingng about 24

and capping off at around 30.

With that said however, I will be doing extensive testing on commander/minion damage as
soon as finish leveling a shaman to aid in the testing process. The log results will

hopefully
be posted soon. This test can be found
here (http://www.drunkenfriar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1475&highlight=archer&sid=b5566427
7b35adf565a547f4e82f8aaf) and will be setup to mirror the one performed at the
Bonedancer team leader forum.

I will try to have the results in within a few days.

While the commander has been using the one hand axe/mace styles, I do know howver that the

sub minion warriors are not using styles at all, so hopefully the following data will
provide the ability to include sub pet styles into Purga.


PET DATA FOR LEBRON

excerpts clipped from Lemo's and Gaavasti's pet testing on VN boards.

Lemo's data has been used in the bone dancer team leader's guides to the class and TL
reports such as found at the

Bone Dancer Team lead forum (http://www.drunkenfriar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3466&sid=5bde28f11991c34a9126212a6
cfab957)

Gaavasto performed recent extensive testing and analysis of darkness spec pets since the
patch 1.76 that changed how they worked previously.

for references Lemo's can be found

here (http://vnboards.ign.com/Bonedancer_Forum/b22328/68247842/?22) and


Gaavasti's can be

found[URL="http://vnboards.ign.com/midgard_mystic_professions/b20914/95744200/p2"]here[/URL

]

This data contains the pet styles used by commander.


The commander is summoned with one of nine weapons. Three axes, three hammers, and
three swords. I matched up the weapon model with the ones players use, and so make the
assumption that the base speed is the same, which the damage caps support. They are as
follows:


(note. Patch 1.83 added an additional weapon (two hand axe, but I have no found any
conclusive data as to the speed or cap of the item. With the exception of this, the
information is still current)



Weapon type-- Attack Speed --- Damage

2H Great Sword, 5.4s, 362 unstyled cap
2H Great Hammer, 5.3s, 355 unstyled cap
1H Bastard Sword, 4.1s, 276 unstyled cap
1H Long Sword, 3.6s, 242 unstyled cap
1H War Hammer, 3.5s, 233 unstyled cap
1H War Axe, 3.1s, 210 unstyled cap
1H Small Hammer, 2.8s, 185 unstyled cap
1H Bearded Axe, 2.7s, 180 unstyled cap
1H Hand Axe, 2.4s, 158 unstyled cap

When wielding an axe, the commander uses Splitter (anytime, weak damage) and Evernight
(rear positional, bleed effect). When wielding a hammer, the commander uses Thor's Anvil
(anytime, weak damage) and Frost Hammer (side positional, snare). When wielding a sword,
the commander uses Whirling Blade (anytime, weak damage) and Northern Lights (side
positional, attack speed debuff). Let me emphasize that when I say weak damage, I really
mean weak damage. When wielding a 2H Great Hammer for instance, the commander's unstyled
cap is 355 damage, its Thor's Anvil cap is 368 damage, but it's Frost Hammer cap is a
whopping 521 damage.

Note also that these numbers were taken from an unbuffed commander. A
commander with quickness and/or haste buffs will have lower style caps, due to the styles
compensating for attack speed.

I would also like to point out right now that the commander is NOT getting a 2H damage
bonus, nor is he getting the 'slow weapon' bonus. The damage he does is directly
proportional to the delay of his weapon. Thus, 2H weapons are not as important as perhaps
we used to think. They will frontload better, but the DPS is the same as any of the 1H
weapons. More important is getting the damage type and styles that you prefer. Of the three
positional styles, Evernight, Frost Hammer, and Northern Lights, Frost Hammer has the
highest damage bonus, although they're all fairly close.

The following data contains information about the Fossil Guardians under supression spec



Guardian
--------

This guy is summoned with one of five weapons. Four 1H hammers, and a 2H staff.

2H ? Staff, ~4.8s, 271 unstyled cap
1H Pick Hammer, 3.7s, 207 unstyled cap
1H War Hammer, 3.5s, 181 unstyled cap
1H Hammer, 3.1s, 194 unstyled cap
1H Small Hammer, 2.8s, 165 unstyled cap

This guy doesn't do any styles, so I don't have a lot to say about him.



The following contians information about The bone army spec line pets

Soldier
------

These guys are pretty interesting. They are summoned with one of five axes: three 2H, two
1H. I'm going to skip the delays on these weapons, because they did not seem to conform
with the player versions. I may come back to this to test further, but for now, here's what I've found:

2H Great Axe, 274 unstyled cap
2H Large Axe, 265 unstyled cap
2H War Cleaver, 253 unstyled cap
1H War Axe, didn't write down cap
1H Hand Axe, didn't write down cap

These guys are the style kings. They do Splitter (anytime, weak damage), Plague (anytime,
taunt), Pillager (anytime, attack speed debuff), Plunderer (followup to Pillager, snare),
and Evernight (rear positional, bleed). Yes, that's right, these guys use a style chain.
The animation for Plague is pretty funny, too



The following information is in regard to the Bone army spec archer pets


Archer
------

The extent of these guys suck factor is well known, and I'm not here to say any different.
They're always summoned with the same bow, and I suspect the same sword. I never bothered
to test their sword damage, as these guys are so uninspiring.

Bow, ?s, 241 shot cap


(note . There was no specific draw time for the archers but it was estimated by the bone
dancer team lead sheena, that their dps was 50% less than the fossil soldier pets which can
be checked for reference in the Bonedancer TL Report v 1.68 (3/1/04) (http://www.drunkenfriar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2&sid=5bde28f11991c34a9126212a6cfa

b957)

In my observations of the archer pets, i believe their draw speed on PURGA is acceptable
however their dmg output seems to need a good bit of adjustment. I will be testing that
along with the othe rmelee pets and post the results asap.

I would like to note that they are consistantly getting into melee mode and will not
rearm their bow. Bone dancer must destroy them, and recast them again to be able to put them
back into ranged mode. I have done 12 test on mobs with them doing this everytime after
they have engaged into melee. Perhaps some adjustment to their Ai is needed to keep them in
range or perhaps make them weaponswitch after combat.It is also suggested that a bow using Ranged Commander be added in the bone army base line or bone army spec line with the exact stats as the archers so as to make these pets viable for the bone dancer, unlike it is currently with a melee commander.

2. Here is the information you requested for mystics.

.
Lebron asks

is mystic supposed to cast snare dd or a simpe one?

They are supposed to have both, according to gaavasti and the patch notes of 1.76.

Bonedancer

- Fixed a bug that was causing the fossil mystic and fossil seer pets to have extremely high resist rates on their spells.

- The fossil mystic's lifetap spell has been changed to a direct damage spell to further reduce the resist rates seen with these pets. Please note the damage type and damage values have not been changed.

The added DD is still on Body dmg, same as former life tap. this is confirmed by gaavasti below.

Gaavasti mentions this in his testing

OK... still doing some more painful bone mystic training. The 2 spells are both DD. One has a snare which is stupid because your commander will be engaged with the mob you are attacking. I guess it the mystics cast the same spells as you would, but they reversed the damage type. A BD snare is cold and the LT is body.

The DD+Snare is a 4sec cast or at least thats what the info says. Like i said before this is over 5 sec cast. It is also body damge so the body debuff should help with this cast. The other DD looks like it a cold damage spell from the damage(-#) and is around a 3sec cast. Also the casting animation is different on Pend than live for the snare.


Delve values for the Mystics dmg are listed by Gaavasti and has been confirmed by Lemo's previous testing to under his thread in VN boards. Delves are posted by gaavasti as follows for cap dmg....done on grey mobs

Caps on the bone mystics

15 Summon Bonemage 127 cap
21 Summon Bonecaster 163 cap
27 Summon Bone Shaman 199 cap
33 Summon Bone Warlock 244 cap
39 Summon Bone Diviner 271 cap
45 Summon Bone Warmage 307 cap

307 was the mutually derived cap by both individuals for the highest dmg on mystics.

Gaavasti also proposed what spell dmg is like from these pets on mobs in the following excepert with his test log. From here it seems that mob dmg would be 2/3 of the delve value for the spell dmg at given lvl of the caster. Caster levels in this test were lvl 30 mystics vs lvl 40 mob and lvl 50 mob. It appears that that his assumptions were correct on the test with the lvl 40 mob. It second test it seems that with mob 20 lvls higher than the mystic, they suffer 50% reduction in dmg I will try to do a full test on this as well, using vs mob scenerio, and vs player.

I assume that the delve values would be cap/3. When they attack there own level mobs they hit pretty close to delve with the 2/3 spec variance included.

I changed the value on the test mobs outside Jord to 40 to test my theory. If they hit for this against even con mobs to the BD I dont think we would be having this thread.

[20:27:04] @@You say, "level 40"
[20:27:04] ##Thrust says, "My level has now been changed, Darkgrygg. Target me again to update your target window."
[20:27:07] The fossil mystic casts a spell!
[20:27:07] Your pet's spell hits Thrust for 104 damage!
[20:27:07] Your dread commander attacks Thrust and hits for 137 damage!
[20:27:11] The fossil mystic casts a spell!
[20:27:11] Thrust resists the effect!
[20:27:14] Your dread commander attacks Thrust and hits for 122 damage!
[20:27:14] The fossil mystic casts a spell!
[20:27:14] Your pet's spell hits Thrust for 94 damage!
[20:27:19] The fossil mystic casts a spell!
[20:27:19] Your pet's spell hits Thrust for 88 damage!
[20:27:19] Your dread commander attacks Thrust and hits for 109 damage!
[20:27:21] The fossil mystic casts a spell!
[20:27:21] Thrust resists the effect!
[20:27:25] Your dread commander attacks Thrust and hits for 115 damage!
[20:27:26] The fossil mystic casts a spell!
[20:27:26] Your pet's spell hits Thrust for 82 damage!
[20:27:29] The fossil mystic casts a spell!
[20:27:29] Your pet's spell hits Thrust for 97 damage!
[20:27:30] Your dread commander attacks Thrust and hits for 115 damage!
[20:27:32] The fossil mystic casts a spell!
[20:27:32] Your pet's spell hits Thrust for 89 damage!
[20:27:36] Your dread commander attacks Thrust and hits for 132 damage!
[20:27:37] The fossil mystic casts a spell!
[20:27:37] Your pet's spell hits Thrust for 94 damage!
[20:27:39] The fossil mystic casts a spell!
[20:27:39] Your pet's spell hits Thrust for 86 damage!
[20:27:42] Your dread commander attacks Thrust and hits for 98 damage!
[20:27:44] The fossil mystic casts a spell!
[20:27:44] Your pet's spell hits Thrust for 95 damage!
[20:27:47] Your dread commander attacks Thrust and hits for 118 damage!
[20:27:47] The fossil mystic casts a spell!
[20:27:47] Your pet's spell hits Thrust for 80 damage!
[20:27:51] The fossil mystic casts a spell!
[20:27:51] Your pet's spell hits Thrust for 115 damage!
[20:27:53] Your dread commander attacks Thrust and hits for 142 damage!
[20:27:53] The fossil mystic casts a spell!
[20:27:53] Your pet's spell hits Thrust for 115 damage!
[20:27:58] The fossil mystic casts a spell!
[20:27:58] Your pet's spell hits Thrust for 99 damage!
[20:27:59] Your dread commander attacks Thrust and hits for 145 damage!
[20:28:02] The fossil mystic casts a spell!
[20:28:02] Your pet's spell hits Thrust for 81 damage!
[20:28:04] Your dread commander attacks Thrust and hits for 138 damage!
[20:28:05] The fossil mystic casts a spell!
[20:28:05] Thrust resists the effect!
[20:28:08] The fossil mystic casts a spell!
[20:28:08] Your pet's spell hits Thrust for 95 damage!
[20:28:09] Your character has been saved.
[20:28:09] Your dread commander attacks Thrust and hits for 108 damage!
[20:28:10] The fossil mystic casts a spell!
[20:28:10] Your pet's spell hits Thrust for 104 damage!
[20:28:15] The fossil mystic casts a spell!
[20:28:15] Your pet's spell hits Thrust for 88 damage!
[20:28:15] Your dread commander attacks Thrust and hits for 97 damage!
[20:28:19] The fossil mystic casts a spell!
[20:28:19] Your pet's spell hits Thrust for 87 damage!
[20:28:21] Your dread commander attacks Thrust and hits for 101 damage!
[20:28:22] The fossil mystic casts a spell!
[20:28:22] Your pet's spell hits Thrust for 82 damage!
[20:28:22] You lose control of the dread commander!
[20:28:22] You release control of your controlled target.

This was when the mob was at 50

[20:26:13] ##Thrust says, "I will no longer attack you, Darkgrygg."
[20:26:16] You command the dread commander to kill your target!
[20:26:18] Your dread commander attacks Thrust and hits for 72 damage!
[20:26:19] The fossil mystic casts a spell!
[20:26:19] Thrust resists the effect!
[20:26:23] Your dread commander attacks Thrust and hits for 75 damage!
[20:26:25] The fossil mystic casts a spell!
[20:26:25] Your pet's spell hits Thrust for 67 damage!
[20:26:29] The fossil mystic casts a spell!
[20:26:29] Your pet's spell hits Thrust for 42 damage!
[20:26:32] The fossil mystic casts a spell!
[20:26:32] Thrust resists the effect!
[20:26:35] Your pet performs its Whirling Blade perfectly. (+3)
[20:26:35] Your dread commander attacks Thrust and hits for 99 damage!
[20:26:35] The fossil mystic casts a spell!
[20:26:35] Thrust resists the effect!
[20:26:38] The fossil mystic casts a spell!
[20:26:38] Your pet's spell hits Thrust for 42 damage!
[20:26:41] The fossil mystic casts a spell!
[20:26:41] Your pet's spell hits Thrust for 54 damage!
[20:26:45] The fossil mystic casts a spell!
[20:26:45] Thrust resists the effect!
[20:26:45] Your pet performs its Whirling Blade perfectly. (+3)
[20:26:45] Your dread commander attacks Thrust and hits for 91 damage!
[20:26:49] The fossil mystic casts a spell!
[20:26:49] Thrust resists the effect!
[20:26:51] Your dread commander attacks Thrust and hits for 91 damage!
[20:26:53] The fossil mystic casts a spell!
[20:26:53] Your pet's spell hits Thrust for 41 damage!
[20:26:58] The fossil mystic casts a spell!
[20:26:58] Your pet's spell hits Thrust for 62 damage!
[20:27:03] Your dread commander attacks Thrust and hits for 82 damage!
[20:27:03] The fossil mystic casts a spell!
[20:27:03] Thrust resists the effect!






As for the seer pets (debuffers)





Lebron asks

And as for shammy pet - what debuffs does he have?I think he casts disease,mb something else


The seer is suspposed to cast a 20 second 50% haste debuff, and a 1 minute disease.and then go into melee. have only seen the seers on Purga cast cold debuff.....so i think something is mixed up, although a cold debuff does help the bone dancer do a bit more dmg from what i have tried out. I do think it is a good idea to keep them in ranged casting debuffs though, because their melee is very poor right now, and they are not supposed to have styles according to Lemo's report. I think them doing a quick debuff then meleeing would be harmful to the caster in the end.

quoting directly from gaavasti, this is also backed up from several posts on the bone dancer team lead forum and Lemo

I was able to test out the 2 seer spells. One is a 20 sec 50% dehaste. The other is a one minute disease. I assume that the spells dont change the higher the sub-pet level.

Seer Pets

18 Summon Bonebreaker
24 Summon Bonejinxer
30 Summon Bonecurser
36 Summon Bonebeguiler
42 Summon Bonebewitcher
48 Summon Bonehexer

Lemos findings

Seer
----

Okay, I was pretty sleepy by this point, but fortunately there isn't a lot to say about these guys either. They are summoned with one of two 2H hammers that I saw:

2H Great Hammer, 273 unstyled cap
2H ? Hammer (weird model), 266 unstyled cap

They fire an instant attack speed debuff, then cast a disease, then run in to melee.


It is suggested that a Ranged Commander be developed in the bone army base line or Darkness mystic spec line that will either use archer Ai or be made into an aditional mystic ranged caster Ai so as to not hinder the performance of the dependant (linked to its death) pets by going into melee against hopeless odds.

3. Pets are not assisting commander


Lebron says

Sub pets are always attacking the same target as commander,so the assist is working good.This is what I remember from my testings.

I find that to be true in most cases after doing more in depth studying of it. however I have found that sometimes the minions WILL break off from the rest such as what occured in this instance here (http://img385.imageshack.us/img385/4481/petsplit3iv.jpg)

From what i can tell, if you are attacking multiple targets, and switch between one to another (and are being attacked), the minion will keep attacking one and the pets will passive and will split off to go to another target as what happened in that screenshot. the live moose wa sthe first target, the dead one is where the other 2 pets attacked it after i obtained aggro. Notice the fossil soldier still attacking it solo while the others are passive. It was rare that it happened but it was repeatable if i had several targets i was attacking and if i had obtained aggro from one and then changed pets around to off tank it.

Im ont sure what can be done about that..but i can imagine in fast pace rvr..that might be aproblem since you are probably assisting and might need to change target if you see a enemy caster or healer doing their thing unopposed or something and need it dead fast.

So far though, the pets have been assisting pretty well but i have not done any tests yet on where you are attacking a player in another group. On live the pets would split up and attack other enemy group members, and would not just go to any one person.


NEW ISSUES

1. Id like to report that the level 31 damage add (Bone daggers) in bone army spec is missing, and has instead the lvl 31 Str/COn buff as its delve and function. When you go to cast it, it adds the str/con buff to pets, not the damage add. The correct value for the dmg add should be

Target= Pet Cast =3.0s Duration/recast= 20 minutes/0s Range =1500 Bonus = Damages target for listed
damage---- Damage = 7.3 Power cost = 19

you can find it at the mythic website here (http://www.camelotherald.com/spells/line.php?c=29&line=83)

2. Inability to Change Bone commander weaponary

After about 40 sumons, I was unable to sumon anything but sword/shield variety of bone commander. Also the recent live 1.83 patch of being able to select your commander's weapon has not been enabled on purga it seems. This would be of an immense help to not only the BD class of all specs, but spirit masters and other pet classes that were given that ability to cater their pet to their needs.. Commander needs to have access to two hand weapons for added dps.

Hiya people, as promised here are some hard figures as to whats going on with bone dancer pet damage.

The test was done with my lvl 50 bone dancer vs my lvl 39 38aug spec shaman. Pets were unbuffed dread commander (lvl 41) , bone razer (lvl 37 warrior pet) , and bone dead eye (lvl 37 archer pet)

Shaman was fully buffed and had 0 slash resistance, 5 crush resistance. Using starter gear armors
Shaman Chain armor Stats (http://img125.imageshack.us/img125/1210/studdedaf2sv.jpg)
Shaman Studded armor Stats (http://img103.imageshack.us/img103/381/chainaf9ep.jpg)

This test was meant to replicate as closely as possible, one done on the bone dancer team lead forum here (http://www.drunkenfriar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1475&highlight=archer&sid=b55664277b35adf565a547f4e82f8aaf)
Their shaman had sub par armor such as mine , along with 8% slash resistance and 11% crush resistance.

A second test using level 50 target player will be done shortly so to make final conclusions.


I have summarized the results here, but Chatlogs can be found in html formats listed beneath.The logs are from my Shaman's perspective.

Note. The commander, archer, and osldier all seemed to share similar attack speed rate, however in commander case, the data showed numbers closer to 3.5 with reptition. The warrior pets and archers were closer to 3.45 so i decided to play it safe and round down to that. However I suppose you could assume that they are all attacking at the same speed.

To look at the log data for combat, follow the links below and click on the Overview/details section. The chat log text file is linked there as well from the top right. I will also provide links to.zip file of all chat log files aquired below this link section for direct dl if that method of looking at the data is preferable to some. To view the data export it all into one directory then click 0index.html file.

Archer Pet On Chain Armor (http://talsyra.tripod.com/archeronchain1.html)
Archer Pet on Studded Armor (http://talsyra.tripod.com/archeronstudded1.html)
Warrior Pet On Chain Armor (http://talsyra.tripod.com/soldieronchain.html)
Warrior Pet on Studded Armor (http://talsyra.tripod.com/soldieronstudded.html)

Dread Commander on Chain Armor (http://talsyra.tripod.com/commanderonchain1.html)
Dread Commander on Studded Armor (http://talsyra.tripod.com/commanderonstudded.html)

Bone Dancer Team Lead Test Log (http://talsyra.tripod.com/bdteamleadtest.html)

DIRECT FILE DL's
Right click save as should work.
Archer On Chain ZIP (http://talsyra.tripod.com/archeronchain1.zip)

Archer On Studded ZIP (http://talsyra.tripod.com/archeronstudded1.zip)

Commander On Chain ZIP (http://talsyra.tripod.com/commanderonchain1.zip)

Commander On Studded ZIP (http://talsyra.tripod.com/commanderonstudded1.zip)

Soldier On Chain ZIP (http://talsyra.tripod.com/soldieronchain1.zip)

Soldier On Studded ZIP (http://talsyra.tripod.com/soldieronstudded1.zip)


THE RESULTS

test1 archer
Slash dmg arrows



test
1. 11 shots
2. 11 shots
3. 10 shots
4. 13 shots
5. 12 shots
6. 12 shots
7. 7 shots
8. 12 shots
9. 12 shots

on

441 AF in newbie armor chain

Results
---------------------
3.45 spd fire rate

15.1dps


62 avg damage per shot






Test2 archer
Slash dmg arrows

Test
1. 12 shots
2. 12 shots
3. 9 shots
4. 13 shots
5. 13 shots
6. 9 shots
7. 12 shots
8. 10 shots
9. 7 shots
10. 7 shots

on

415AF studded newbie armor


Results
-----------

3.45 spd fire rate

21.9 dps

83 avg damage per shot







commander test 2
one hand slash damage

Test
1. 12 swings
2. 13 swings
3. 12 swings
4. 16 swings
5. 14 swings
6. 12 swings
7. 9 swings
8 20 swings

on

441 AF chain newbie armor

Results

-----------

3.5 attack speed


18.7 dps

85 avg damage per attack




Commander test 1
one hand Slash damage

1. 9 swings
2. 9 swings
3. 9 swings
4. 9 swings
5. 9 swings
6. 9 swings
7. 11 swings
8. 14 swings
9. 14 swings
10. 9 swings

on

415 AF studded newbie armor


Results

-----------

3.5 Attack speed

26.1 dps

113 avg damage per attack


Soldier test1
Two hand cleaver

Test
1. 11 swings
2. 10 swings
3. 12 swings
4. 12 swings
5. 15 swings
6. 13 swings
7. 13 swings
8. 7 swings
9. 12 swings

on

441 AF newbie chain armor



Results

--------------

3.45 Attack speed


15.6 dps


63 avg damage per attack






Soldier damage 2

two hand cleaver

Test
1. 12 swings
2. 13 swings
3. 12 swings
4. 12 swings
5. 9 swings
6. 12 swings
7. 13 swings
8. 13 swings
9. 12 swings

on

415 AF studded newbie armor


Results

-----------


3.45 Attack speed

19.6 dps


85 avg damage per attack



Conclusions.

From looking at the data, My hunch about pet damage being off from live values was correct. From comparing the data found at the BD team lead test, pet damages across the board are significantly lower on average.

1.All the pets are using slash damage.

2. There is no change of dmg type based on weapon model used nor in dmg done, so a commander using two hand mace is doing slash dmg and the same amount of damage as iif he were using a one hand axe.

3. Only commander is using a type of style.


Archer damage

While archer dps is higher on Purga than on live, (15.1 dps compared to 11.9 ) it still remains the lowest dps out of all the pets and it has significantly lower dmg per shot rate at 62 on chain and 83 on studded. . Even factoring in 10% resistance from chain, the avg damage is still low at around 68 compared to BD team lead test of 99. Note the dmg to studded leather on Purga is Still significantly lower than the avg dmg on the Live test, even though studded leather has vulnerability to slash..

I Recommend looking at bringing archer dmg up to around 23.6 dps at the least, while also keeping the bow spd the same so as to bring up to live server dmg per shot.


Warrior Pet damage

Bone razer dps on average is 15.6 with attack speed of 3.45 with average dmg of 63 done on chain armor. This is down from 23.6 dps from live.with 2.66 attack speed and average of 69 (taking into account added slash resistance of 8 on test it is actually 73) using a one handed weapon. Even hitting studded leather (vulnerable to slash) warrior dps didnt reach live standard dps. Studded dps is 19.6, live standard is 23.6. Warrior pet attack speed on Purga is much slow AND it does less damage per hit and on average than Live test.

Warrior pets are sharing the issue with the commander in that no matter which weapon is chosen on graphic model on their backs, they do not benifit from anyhigher damage, whether its one hand or two hand. They are also not using any style or at the least not the styles they are supposed to be using. You will notice from the log that my shaman was never hit for any special style effects.

I believe that adding their appropriate styles with dmg bonus modifiers will solve some of their poor dmg problem if they are also given access to appropriate speed on their weapon swings. At the least, live standard probably could be considered for the weapon attack speed and dps until a solution can be found to give them varied weapons
.
Following data is taken from LEMOS VN POST (http://vnboards.ign.com/Bonedancer_Forum/b22328/68247842/?2) and from Sheena (ex bd-teamlead) bd forum.

Here are the styles they are supposed to be using

AXE styles

Splitter (anytime),
Plague (anytime, taunt),

Pillager (anytime, attack speed debuff),
Plunderer (followup to Pillager, snare),

Evernight (rear positional, bleed).


Their two hand axe dmg caps are as follows (taken from LEMOS VN Thread (http://vnboards.ign.com/Bonedancer_Forum/b22328/68247842/?2))

2H Great Axe, 274 unstyled cap
2H Large Axe, 265 unstyled cap
2H War Cleaver, 253 unstyled cap

1h damage appears to be capped at 108 to even con mob/player if you look at the BD TL test. Highest cap hit on chain was 92 (-16) (The BD team lead shaman was lvl 39 vs lvl 37 warrior pet)

This is the continuation of my post above, and also to other posts i made prior in this thread, providing information for LeBron and other site visitors.

Commander Damage

Commander has the highest dps of the pets at 18.7 and attack speed of 3.5 with all weapons. Compared to the normal warrior pet dps on live, it stilll pales in comparison. Live warrior pet dps is 23.6 as descriped on BD TL forum test. The only time commander dps reaches/marginalyl passes standard dps on live is when he hits vulnerable to slash armor. Studded dps for commander was 26.1. Commander at the moment is only using one style which is of indeterminante origin as he uses the same style using all weapon types.

Here is an example of the commander doing slash damage with a crush weapon
Commander using Mace (http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/1151/macedmg1nh.jpg)

If you look at the commander damage from teh BD team lead test, it appears to be to be from fairly slow one hand hammer. 3 hits are shown with speeds of about 3.5-4.0 from the swing rate on the log, with the dmg ranging from 172-175 andh 11% crush resistance to it. The max dmg cap hit the commander on my test hit on studded leather 130 (+11) and this was a vulnerability to slash dmg type. Chain is neutral to crush, so thus the commander in the Live test is doing at the least 61-65 more dmg than commanders on Purga per hit using a one hand weapon. Note the one hand hammer cap on live is 233 unstyled.

The commander shares the same misfortune that the other warrior pets have , in that ALL weapons chosen use the same damage,speed, and damage type. It appears some display bug makes commander look like hes holding a shield but wielding a two hander whenever two hand weapon commanders are s****ned. Howeever i have determined that his DPS is higher than the other minions either as a result of his lvl difference (he is lvl 41 as compared to lvl 37 for other pets) vs the shaman (lvl 39) and/or as a result of the style that he chains.

With that said, I will like to note that he only uses that one style (i believe splitter which is suppsoed tobe axe only) with ALL weapons. He does not do any other styles that he is supposed to have access to. I have tried rear and side positionals but he does not attack using them.

In short, the commander needs his styles added, in addition to boosting his base dmg up.. I recommend at the least , he be given access to his normal styles as per the following, and/or bring his normal dps up to live warrior pet standard of 23.6 dps.

Following data is taken from LEMOS VN POST (http://vnboards.ign.com/Bonedancer_Forum/b22328/68247842/?2) and from Sheena (ex bd-teamlead) bd forum.

Styles the commander should be using

When wielding axes commander uses

Splitter (anytime)
Evernight (rear positional, bleed effect)

When wielding a hammer, the commander uses

Thor's Anvil (anytime)
Frost Hammer (side positional, snare).

When wielding a sword, the commander uses

Whirling Blade (anytime)
Northern Lights (side positional, attack speed debuff)

Commander weapon dmg caps as per Lemo's post are as follows

2H Great Sword, 5.4s, 362 unstyled cap
2H Great Hammer, 5.3s, 355 unstyled cap
1H Bastard Sword, 4.1s, 276 unstyled cap
1H Long Sword, 3.6s, 242 unstyled cap
1H War Hammer, 3.5s, 233 unstyled cap
1H War Axe, 3.1s, 210 unstyled cap
1H Small Hammer, 2.8s, 185 unstyled cap
1H Bearded Axe, 2.7s, 180 unstyled cap
1H Hand Axe, 2.4s, 158 unstyled cap


There is a two hand axe now, but I do no have data on it atm.

do me a favor and dont use that stupid big fonts it makes it so hard to read

do me a favor and dont use that stupid big fonts it makes it so hard to read

done and done. did a bit of editing =P

It took me a while to finish testing and compile the data, but I believe i have the last bit of it finished now. After looking over the large,and rather disorganized posting I have in this thread, it dawned on me to make tables to better display the data and hopefully make it easier to understand and read for everyone. Hopefully these tables will make the reading more concise.

The page contains live server info as well as All of my own purga testing information and can now be found at the following link:

Pet Damage Comparisons and Data (http://talsyra.tripod.com/damagetable.html)


For references, I have included all sources from which I have derived my data. You may look for them at the following

Gaavsti's Testing Results (http://vnboards.ign.com/midgard_mystic_professions/b20914/95744200/p2)
Lemo's VN thread (http://vnboards.ign.com/Bonedancer_Forum/b22328/68247842/?2)
Bone Dancer Team Lead forum (http://www.drunkenfriar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1475&highlight=archer&sid=b55664277b35adf565a547f4e82f8aaf)

For my test chat logs you man download fthem from the following links with right click save as:

Testing on 39 Shaman (http://talsyra.tripod.com/dmgtesting.zip)
Testing on 50 Healer w newb gear (http://talsyra.tripod.com/dmgtesting2.zip)
Testing on 50 healer with near AF cap gear (http://talsyra.tripod.com/dmgtesting.zip)
Spelldamage (http://talsyra.tripod.com/spelldamagetesting.zip)
For final commentary, i would like to highlight the issues that are still prevelant after testing.

1. Pet damage is significantly lower than on live
2. Darkness pets and Bone army archers are hampered by having a melee commander.

Findings on Pet damage

1. Commander is doing ess damage than on live. Looking at the commander damage from Gaavsti's test, you can see that the average damage is 119 using a two handed weapon while attacking a lvl 40 (even con) neutral resist target. On purga, the commander does the same damage with all weapons and only makes it up to 113 on studded armor on an even con target, which it gets 10% bonus dmg to. After calculating neutral damage for the commander, the average is around 100. Roughly 15% less than on live at the least.

The commander is also in need of the full use of his styles/weapons as well. I have listed the appropriate styles that he should be using as per live, on the table information page.

2. Archer pet in bone army spec line average damage is roughly 50% lower than live standards. My findings have placed purga archer average dmg vs chain armor to be 62, where as on live the value is much higher, at around 99 according to the bone dancer team lead forum testing and teamlead responses. The purga archer bow draw rate is acceptable, however their damage is in dire need of adjustment. I would recommend 50%increase at the least to reach live standards or up to maybe 100% at the outmost.These pets are also being hampred by the lack of a ranged commander so that they can actually make use of having a range advantage against an opponent.

3. Soldier pets in bone army spec line average damage is roughly 15% less than on live at 63 on chain, compared to 74 on chain with live. However..upon looking at their actual dps statisics, they rank much lower in damage dueto their high swing rate and low average damage. On purga they average 15.6 dps on chain, where as on live, they average a much greater 23.6. On purga their weapon speed is at around 3.45, on live it is 2.667. These pets are also not using styles as they should be. I have provided a list of the styles they should be doing in my table information section..

4. Darkness pets are in a lot of trouble. The bone mystic pets are all doing horrendous damage. Mystic pets should have access to a snare line cold dd spell along with a body damage base line dd,This information comes from gaavsti testing however the pets on purga only nuke with a base line cold dd which does not snare and offers pathetic damage. Gaavsti's test placed mystic damage at around 15.5 dps with an average dmg of 93 on a level 40 test subject. However on purga damage is at an abysmal 1.5dps with an average dmg of 4.5 on the same level range. Gaavsti's test on level 50 test subject put the mystics at 4.9 dps with an average damage of 51. On purga, the same level subject ended up on many occasions taking 0 damage, and averaging an astonishing .1 dps, with .4 average damage. Info about the pet dd spec line can be found on mythics patch 1.76 notes here (http://support.darkageofcamelot.com/kb/article.php?id=786)

In addition to this, the seer pet (debuffer) only debuffs with a very miniscule cold debuff shown here (http://img73.imageshack.us/img73/6420/colddebuffed7kt.jpg) Gaavsti notes that these debuffer pets are supposed to be casting a 20 second duration 50% haste debuff and a 1 minute long disease, not a cold debuff.

As it stands now, unless the mystic pets are moved to live damage tables, then they are nothing more than just caster interrupters and offer nothing to the bonedancer for offensive ability. The pets will also need to have a ranged commander for them to be linked to so that they can at least have some measure of utility for being ranged casters. With melee commander, they will never use their potential due to the commander's potential to be destroyed easily and taking the other pets with him.

If it is of any help, here are the damage caps for the mystics

15 Summon Bonemage 127 cap
21 Summon Bonecaster 163 cap
27 Summon Bone Shaman 199 cap
33 Summon Bone Warlock 244 cap
39 Summon Bone Diviner 271 cap
45 Summon Bone Warmage 307 cap

If there are any quests please ask them! If there is more information required to address these problems please let me know and ill try to get the requested info asap. thanks

Don't want to create a new thread, the instant body debuff of darkness specc doesn't work, it should be instant on a target, here it casts a dex/qui buff on pet.

Debuff (Instant, Body Resistance) Targets resistance to body magic is lowered.

Boost Bonecaster(22) - Cost: 10 PP Range: 1500 Duration: 15s Recast: 5s -15 Body

Support Bonecaster(34) - Cost: 16 PP Range: 1500 Duration: 15s Recast: 5s -30 Body

Bolster Bonecaster(46) - Cost: 24 PP Range: 1500 Duration: 15s Recast: 5s -50 Body

Greetz, Geriain

yep, instant body debuff of darkness cast a dex/qui buff on pet .......PLS FIX IT.