Here’s another issue that has been bugging me – MoP vs Viper:

Viper – 30 RP for 100% boost to player applied poisons, not procs or mines
MoP – 35 RP for +39% to chance of critical (total 49%)

Viper damage assuming Lifebane – this one is easy:
Lifebane ticks for 118 per 4 seconds assuming 26% Body resist. This is a verifiable and repeatable datum.

Therefore the additional damage gained from Viper 3 is 118/2 or 59 per 4 seconds
Damage per second is therefore 14.5 hits/sec

Now MoP5 damage assuming the following:
Chance of swinging both weapons is 50% (equates to total DW/CD skill of 37)
Swing timer is capped at 1.5 secs/swing
Base damage per swing is 100 (this is low but a good starting point)

Chance of a critical hit occurring per round of combat is:
This is calculated as (1 - chance that a crit will NOT happen on either swing) (0.51 x 0.51) = 0.26 so there is obviously a 0.74 or 74% chance there is one

But this has to be modified to account for the 50% swing rate on off hand so:
(0.51 x 0.75) = 0.38 so 62% chance of a crit per round.

Damage per critical hit is easy. Minimum is 10% of base damage, max is 50% (PvP)
So mean damage per critical hit = 30% of base or 30

So, using these two figures we can calculate the additional damage per round from a critical hit with MoP5 and DW 37 to be:
30 x 0.62 = 18.6

We now have to subtract the damage that would be expected for the base of 10% crit chance to calculate the ADDITIONAL benefit from MoP5
Chance of a crit per round with base crit chance of 10% is 0.9 x 0.95=0.86 translating to a 14% chance of a crit per round with DW 37

So damage per round from base crit of 10% is 30 x 0.14 = 4.2

Meaning damage per round gained from MoP5 is 18.6 – 4.2 = 14.4

FINALLY – swing timer is 1.5 seconds so damage from MoP5 per second is 14.4/1.5 or 9.6 hits per second.

Comparison then:

Viper3 adds 14.5 hits per second
MoP5 adds 9.6 hits per second

BUT, consider our assumed base damage of 100 – I said it was low. If you swing for 150, the damage output of MoP5 becomes 14.4 – almost identical to Viper 3. I don’t think 150 a swing with styles is difficult – you might say it was in the normal range.

So let’s redefine our starting position and draw a few conclusions:

If you have DW 37, swing at capped speed of 1.5 secs/swing and hit (with styles) for 150 a swing, there is little or nothing to choose between Viper3 and MoP5

If you have DW>37, MoP5 looks better. Conversely, if its low, Viper3 looks better
If your average swing damage is >150, MoP5 looks a LOT better
If you are swinging slower than 1.5 cap, Viper3 looks better

Other factors to bear in mind:
MoP5 is 5 points more expensive than Viper3
If you are fighting Nightshades, MoP5 wins hands down – no contest
If you are MoP CS assassin, 49% of your PA’s will critical –
If you kite or fight speed types a lot, Viper3 looks good
Posions can be purged – learn to swap weapons in combat if you buy Viper3

Final conclusion I have made is that the optimum damage output per RP spent probably involves a combination of the two! But that’s another story and another spreadsheet..;p

Looking forward to someone checking my math and for discussion!

Poison can be purged, resisted and cured and if it doesnt its still on a durration timer...criticals are always up I say mop is better

swings can be parried/blocked/evaded/bubbled, or just plain missed.

Poison also hits after you are dead or while you run away.

In the end, they are probably close to the same in regards to perks vs faults.

-L

well if your melee hit is missed, parryed, blocked, evaded, or bubbled then the poison wont be applyed either

Why MoP5 OR Viper3? Why not MoP4 AND Viper2? I would expect for one more RA point you'd get TONS more damage going that route.

What I am about to say has no proof... but it "seems" that even when I was running with MoP5 I would rarely land a crit.

Yes, I used a 2hander.. so that probably has somthing to do with it. (less swings)

Anyway, viper 3 has helped my game a TON. MoP had little to no effect for me.



I also thought I would have about 50% chance to land a nice perf. But it was more like 10%.. ha, maybe I just have bad luck.

Just to add my opinion--unless you have lifebane, viper is a waste. BUT that being said, the MoP4 Viper2 would be the best use of your rsp's imo. And a good assasin NEVER neglects his/her Vanish!!!

(4) Toughness 250 hp
(4) Mastery of Pain 27%
(3) Mastery of Stealth 15%/300
(2) Purge no delay
(3) Viper 100%
(1) Vanish Normal Speed, 1 sec immune
(1)Remedy R5L0 ingest poison, cost 10% HP’s
(1) Tireless Class ability: 1 Endurance regen per tick.


This is what i was looking at for RR 10L10

Couple of things being left out of this thread:

1) If you are at least Ml3, poison can randomly be reapplied
2) Viper 3 isn't really worth it for inf's and sb's

If you are a NS with high envenom, Viper 3 is the way to go (especially since remedy prevents poisons from working on you)

If you are a non-hib assassin, mop5 would be rhe wiser choice (unless you avoid fighting hibs)

It's all up to playstyle, just like everything else.