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Topic:
Charisma = More shout damage
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KataliaWaywatcher 
Posts: 3,770
Registered: Dec 01
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Date Posted:
2/10 3:18pm
Subject: Charisma = More shout damage
- Date Edited: 2/10 3:25pm (3 edits total)
Edited By:
KataliaWaywatcher
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This is something I didn't know until just now. Someone said it on Bards of Camelot, and I decided to investigate and see if it was true. I shouted a blue-con paladin 3 times in a duel, with varying amounts of charisma:
180 charisma
[18:03:00] You cast a Major Cacophony Spell!
[18:03:00] You hit for 255 (-22) damage!
141 charisma
[18:03:29] You cast a Major Cacophony Spell!
[18:03:29] Myers resists the effect!
[18:03:36] @@You say, "Figures...gotta wait now."
[18:03:42] @@Myers says, "try again heh"
[18:03:44] You cast a Major Cacophony Spell!
[18:03:44] You hit for 228 (-20) damage!
105 charisma
[18:05:21] You cast a Major Cacophony Spell!
[18:05:21] You hit for 203 (-18) damage!
The ratio here is .69 points of damage per point of charisma.
The relationship between charisma and resist-rate has not yet been established, nor am I sure this damage:charisma ratio will be the same against yellow targets.
More testing is needed.
Also, I have two questions:
Why do my shouts not have a chance to critical?
and
Why did I only just notice this now?
SLS
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Katalia (50) -- Minstrel of Percival
My Minstrel FAQ: http://vnboards.ign.com/message.asp?topic=50168797
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Transcender 
Posts: 238
Registered: May 02
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Date Posted:
2/10 3:28pm
Subject: RE: Charisma = More shout damage
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SLS - I'm still a bit miffed about minstrel shout damage output factors. Supposedly it is partially based on Instrument level (according to a grab bag if I am not mistaken).
I have 192 Charisma (capped, aug acuity 2) and am currently at 50+8 Instruments. After a few tests I determined that I do the same dd shout damage with straight 50 Instruments, no bonuses.
Would like to hear your thoughts on skill level vs charisma attributes.
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Guided
Posts: 1,066
Registered: Jan 02
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Date Posted:
2/10 3:33pm
Subject: RE: Charisma = More shout damage
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Knew the charisma thing, but not about the instruments. hrm. Are there any glowing instruments out there by the way? Nothing like a flaming flute to your lips.
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Cooksley BD of Nimue
The Artist Formerly Known as Dutch
"Put the Pie charts away , enjoy the game" ~Axebreaker~
Original Member of the 7th Oldest Midgard Guild on Nimue
Revlok of Nimue
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Zaaph
Posts: 1,579
Registered: May 01
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Date Posted:
2/10 3:43pm
Subject: RE: Charisma = More shout damage
- Date Edited: 2/10 3:45pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Zaaph
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Aye, Instrument SPEC over level has no effect on damage from my tests.
Only reason to raise this skill is for the spells and easier charming.
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Zaaph Songsworn - Minstrel
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KataliaWaywatcher
Posts: 3,770
Registered: Dec 01
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Date Posted:
2/10 3:53pm
Subject: RE: Charisma = More shout damage
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I can't speak for instruments, as I haven't tested them.
I think I'll go run some logs and see if resist rate is determined by charisma. That strikes me as being important enough to the minstrel community to be worth some time.
SLS
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SearchLightSoul
Katalia (50) -- Minstrel of Percival
My Minstrel FAQ: http://vnboards.ign.com/message.asp?topic=50168797
"Look at me, I'm serious. If you turn around and load up those forums, I'm breaking up with you."
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DanakV
Posts: 113
Registered: Oct 01
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Date Posted:
2/10 4:17pm
Subject: RE: Charisma = More shout damage
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I have run several tests on minstrel shout damage and the factors which can effect it.
Katalia, your totals seem a bit low compared to my testing. Although it was some time ago and I did not record my results, it seemed to be much closer to the .8 range for Charisma / damage increase ratio.
Instrument spec does indeed increase your shout damage, albeit not as much as Charisma. Again, I did not record my tests as they were performed solely for my own curiosity but it was in the neighborhood of .5 per spec point, if I recall correctly.
As a side note, I was able to find no noticeable difference in resist rates on shouts from either increased Charisma or Instruments spec. My data sample was only approximately 200 shouts, so this is obviously only an observation.
Charisma also increases the size of our power pool. I believe it was between .75 and 1 power per Charisma, but I did not take the time to measure this to a precise degree.
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Danak Valendon
Percival / Guinevere
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KataliaWaywatcher
Posts: 3,770
Registered: Dec 01
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Date Posted:
2/10 4:59pm
Subject: RE: Charisma = More shout damage
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Ok here's some more tests I just did in PvE. Pulling vigilant souls:
135 Charisma
Discordant Shriek
119.9 average damage
85.7% success rate
Major Cacophony
149.2 average damage
100% success rate
180 Charisma
Discordant Shriek
138.5 average damage
90.9% success rate
Major Cacophony
172.4 average damage
100% success rate
Discordant's resist rate went down slightly, but it's hard to tell whether it's statistically significant. I had to take statistics twice (I'm very verbal -- can ya tell?) so you don't want me to try an analysis of variance, especially since I don't remember how.
The damage increase in this instance was .41 points per point of charisma for discordant, and .51 points per point of charisma for cacophony.
I don't know what to make of that.
SLS
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SearchLightSoul
Katalia (50) -- Minstrel of Percival
My Minstrel FAQ: http://vnboards.ign.com/message.asp?topic=50168797
"Look at me, I'm serious. If you turn around and load up those forums, I'm breaking up with you."
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Geiralfr
Posts: 195
Registered: Apr 02
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Date Posted:
2/10 5:18pm
Subject: RE: Charisma = More shout damage
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I will run it through SPSS 11.0 if you give me the data points. Or, if you tell me roughly how many mobs 10, 20, 100, 200, 3? Hard for us to know whether that means anything. Thanks for asking the questions though. Keep it up!
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Geiralfr 50 Shadowblade <Mordred>
~Dark Covenant~
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KataliaWaywatcher
Posts: 3,770
Registered: Dec 01
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Date Posted:
2/10 5:27pm
Subject: RE: Charisma = More shout damage
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Raw data logs are coming via private message. Run them through Statz0r if you want to get the numbers I did out of it.
SLS
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SearchLightSoul
Katalia (50) -- Minstrel of Percival
My Minstrel FAQ: http://vnboards.ign.com/message.asp?topic=50168797
"Look at me, I'm serious. If you turn around and load up those forums, I'm breaking up with you."
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Wileran
Posts: 1,053
Registered: Oct 02
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Date Posted:
2/10 9:13pm
Subject: RE: Charisma = More shout damage
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For what it's worth I noticed similar effects of cha on my skald shouts.
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crimsonsage1 
Posts: 474
Registered: Dec 01
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Date Posted:
2/10 9:40pm
Subject: RE: Charisma = More shout damage
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<---is glad he put 15 points into charisma...
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50 Infiltrator- Seriss Companions of Steel Percival GM alchemist
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Speor
Posts: 1,646
Registered: Mar 02
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Date Posted:
2/10 9:51pm
Subject: RE: Charisma = More shout damage
- Date Edited: 2/10 9:57pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Speor
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I've noticed that DD damage is something like the following ...
Give 1% per point of instruments.
Give .1% per point of charisma.
Times them to the base (and each other).
If you have 60 instruments and 190 charisma, you would have the following damage with Cacophony and Dischordant Shriek.
Cacophony: 114 * 1.60 * 1.19 = 217
Shriek: 92 * 1.60 * 1.19 = 175
The above isn't exact, I usually do slightly more damage than that. But it is extremely close to the mark. Try plugging in your results with your instrument spec at the time of your tests. 
Lower cons will get hit for more.
Of course if you have power relics, you will hit even harder. Surprisingly, power relics seem to give more than 10 percent.
I haven't noticed if higher charisma modifies resist rates. I wouldn't think so, but the above logs seem to suggest that.
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Speor (nemesis of Chamrox, the *I think power relics make me strong* lurikeen ranger)
50th Season Old-School Briton Minstrel
Eagle Knight Commander of Domus Caliburn
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Insolent_Ant
Posts: 2,230
Registered: Jul 02
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Date Posted:
2/10 11:25pm
Subject: RE: Charisma = More shout damage
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I thought this was common knowledge by now. Oh well. Instrument spec works just like spell specs. It reduces variance and increases damage up to the level of the target. After that it's 0.5% damage gain (and no variance) per point of +instrument.
Each point of charisma increases DD damage by whatever Katalia has there...something like 0.3% per point.
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Eka: 50 skald, Percival (fun)
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Thronsen 
Posts: 725
Registered: Feb 02
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Date Posted:
2/11 12:58am
Subject: RE: Charisma = More shout damage
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The very rough rule of thumb I always used was raising your Cha by 2 pts raised your shout damage by 1 pt. Raising your Instru by 1 raised your shout damage by 2-3 pts.
But during my exhaustive 30 seconds or so of testing I never looked to see if my Instru above my level or my oppenents level had any real impact (and by the way which is it, your opponents level or your own?).
What I would love to find out if there is anything I can do to reduce the amount of out and our resists I get on my DDs and my stun. It seems this has gotten worse as time has gone on. And if the 9 sec stun goes through it would be really nice to know how we can maxmize its reliability.
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Cheradenine
Posts: 484
Registered: May 02
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Date Posted:
2/11 3:10am
Subject: RE: Charisma = More shout damage
- Date Edited: 2/11 3:11am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Cheradenine
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These are not new figures.
Though they definitely bear repeating from time to time.
On an anecdotal note, I've sold quite a few items while i cash-farm in preparation for my SC suit... got something like 154 cha and and the decrease in my DDs is definitely noticable. =/
Surprised people don't notice this without testing it, tbh!
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R5 Virtuoso of Excalibur (Gimped pending RA respec; AoM5 for the win)
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KataliaWaywatcher
Posts: 3,770
Registered: Dec 01
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Date Posted:
2/11 4:19am
Subject: RE: Charisma = More shout damage
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Well, it was surprising to me. I always knew, or at least suspected, that instruments were responsible, but I'd heard conflicting reports over whether charisma was also involved.
Btw I was at 55 instruments in the second set of tests.
SLS
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SearchLightSoul
Katalia (50) -- Minstrel of Percival
My Minstrel FAQ: http://vnboards.ign.com/message.asp?topic=50168797
"Look at me, I'm serious. If you turn around and load up those forums, I'm breaking up with you."
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Stephan_Real
Posts: 100
Registered: Jan 02
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Date Posted:
2/11 4:37am
Subject: RE: Charisma = More shout damage
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Its really (flowering) simple guys......
equip your drum, look at your weaponskill.
It goes up as you raise your charisma and your instrument skill. I recommend somewhere around the 1200-1300 range to get your ends worth of damage from your shouts.
I currently run with around 1370.
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Speor
Posts: 1,646
Registered: Mar 02
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Date Posted:
2/11 5:04am
Subject: RE: Charisma = More shout damage
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From my experiences, I've always observed that instruments OVER the target level add to damage. So some of the above surprised me. I DDed a paladin in a duel to verify and this is what happened ...
With 190 Charisma and 45+8 Instruments.
-> Cacophony did 182(-64).
-> Shriek did 146(-51).
With 190 Charisma and 45+15 Instruments.
-> Cacophony did 188(-66).
-> Shriek did 151(-53).
Instrument over target level does make a difference.
The damage is super high because we have all the power relics on the Guinevere server.
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Speor (nemesis of Chamrox, the *I think power relics make me strong* lurikeen ranger)
50th Season Old-School Briton Minstrel
Eagle Knight Commander of Domus Caliburn
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-aXcez-
Posts: 1,562
Registered: May 02
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Date Posted:
2/11 9:05am
Subject: RE: Charisma = More shout damage
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Resist lvls is based on Lvl of spell like all other spells in this game, cant remember the formula but i htink a lvl 45 spell is.. 85% and.. a 35 is 75% ..and eveyr 10 lower = 10% or if it was 5..shrug...
anyways, charisma decides how much easier to hit ure cap..i dunno really about formula but dont raise cap but make it easier to hit for harder, same goes for relics, and supposely + instrument too(if it works like all the other casters in this game) , and +1 inst is about 0.5 more dmg(not over cap, but harder hitting on a yellow con since u wont cap)
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Danyan_
Posts: 1,470
Registered: Nov 02
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Date Posted:
3/2 1:45pm
Subject: RE: Charisma = More shout damage
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"Knew the charisma thing, but not about the instruments. hrm. Are there any glowing instruments out there by the way? Nothing like a flaming flute to your lips."
Flute of Balefire glows green (and is a red flute), that's the only one I know of. It drops off Legion.
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Danya, 50 Mentalist, Excalibur (EU)
Danyan, 50 Minstrel, Prydwen (EU)
Danya, 47 Mercenary, Prydwen (EU)
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