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Topic:
Lifetap vs. spec DD
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binder_pellinor
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Jan '02
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Date Posted:
8/16/04 4:27pm
Subject:
RE: Lifetap vs. spec DD
- Date Edited:
8/16/04 4:27pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
binder_pellinor
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"stun debuff nuke nuke nuke "
I count 5 hits there. Spamnesia is a bug that has been fixed. Amnesia does very little in the 1 second cast time era.
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Loghan.sb
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Date Posted:
8/16/04 4:28pm
Subject:
RE: Lifetap vs. spec DD
- Date Edited:
8/16/04 4:33pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Loghan.sb
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you have everything a typical dark rm has + bolt AE mez, yellow con charmable pets, mez reduction, power regen, close to if not higher dps DD but it gives you 60% life return, ae root, single target mez, ae amnesia, and AE str/con and AE dex/qui shout.
we have a blue nearsight (that is resisted 50% of the time) and a 10 second pbt. our rr5 RA is broken and only evades ~20% of hits while yours absorbs 90% damage...i know how ridiculous that is, my warrior has testudo. On a caster that is nice~.
hib casters stun may be ridiculously overpowered in a 1v1 fight, but no caster changes the tide of a fight or has as many tools as a sorc.
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Cilgaron
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Date Posted:
8/16/04 4:33pm
Subject:
RE: Lifetap vs. spec DD
- Date Edited:
8/16/04 4:33pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Cilgaron
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Me and Binder are just poking a few jokes here. I have complete respect for my foes.
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Catzeye (50 Sorc) Pellinor RR 10L9 SixSecond (50 Warden) Galahad RR 4L6 <<Outsiderz>> & <<Crimson>> http://camelotmonkey.com/s.php?u=catzeye http://www.myspace.com/ericseckinger
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Cilgaron
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Date Posted:
8/16/04 4:34pm
Subject:
RE: Lifetap vs. spec DD
- Date Edited:
8/16/04 4:37pm (3 edits total)
Edited By:
Cilgaron
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Sorcs are powerful man when played right everyone knows that.
We should pack a little more punch based on the fact that we are the primary mezzer, wear cloth, and are one of the primary enemy targets.
The other realms primary mezzers are capable characters as well but they lack damage output.
Instead they are given comparable abilities. Heal/Buff and many other valuable things.
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Catzeye (50 Sorc) Pellinor RR 10L9 SixSecond (50 Warden) Galahad RR 4L6 <<Outsiderz>> & <<Crimson>> http://camelotmonkey.com/s.php?u=catzeye http://www.myspace.com/ericseckinger
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Frauldan_Sowelo
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Date Posted:
8/16/04 4:37pm
Subject:
RE: Lifetap vs. spec DD
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Nice self serving argument there.
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Cilgaron
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Date Posted:
8/16/04 4:39pm
Subject:
RE: Lifetap vs. spec DD
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Do you disagree?
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Catzeye (50 Sorc) Pellinor RR 10L9 SixSecond (50 Warden) Galahad RR 4L6 <<Outsiderz>> & <<Crimson>> http://camelotmonkey.com/s.php?u=catzeye http://www.myspace.com/ericseckinger
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jello1717
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Date Posted:
8/16/04 4:40pm
Subject:
RE: Lifetap vs. spec DD
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"If DPS was what you really cared about, you would go for aug dex and +dex before you went for MoM, +acuity, +damage, WP etc. In practice, how much does this really happen? It seems to me people are more interested in pushing up their damage than their casting speed (at the higher levels)."
I'm not sure about Albs and Hibs, but here on the Mystic boards, anytime someone asks which RAs to get, there are several people (myself included) who recommend going for Aug dex 3 before you get any damage RAs and then getting aug dex 4 if you can afford it. Also, there's been so many "you really should have more +dex. Speed kills!" replies to template critiques that I've lost count.
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Yosarian_
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Date Posted:
8/16/04 4:41pm
Subject:
RE: Lifetap vs. spec DD
- Date Edited:
8/16/04 4:44pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Yosarian_
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Here is a comparison of two wizard spells that delve for exactly the same amount (108).
Fiery maelstrom (the baseline) is hitting for slightly more, although the extra is being lost to resists:
- You hit for 324 (-62) damage!
Lesser conflagration (the specline) is hitting for 324 for also, although you can see from the log that the damage it would do prior to resists is less:
- You hit for 324 (-56) damage!
Link to the log
All very mysterious. For some reason Mythic seems to think baseline spells should cast faster and do more damage (for the same delve) than specline spells.
btw killets, I got cast speed capping at around 405 dex with 10% casting speed bonus. This was over 200+ casts per dex level at about 4-5 level of dex near that amount.
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binder_pellinor
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Date Posted:
8/16/04 4:52pm
Subject:
RE: Lifetap vs. spec DD
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"Fiery maelstrom (the baseline) is hitting for slightly more, although the extra is being lost to resists: "
[21:10:35] You cast a Fiery Maelstrom (Minor) Spell!
[21:10:35] You hit for 324 (-62) damage!
[21:10:41] You cast a Lesser Conflagration Spell!
[21:10:41] You hit for 324 (-56) damage!
[21:10:50] You cast a Fiery Maelstrom (Minor) Spell!
[21:10:50] You hit for 324 (-56) damage!
[21:10:53] You cast a Lesser Conflagration Spell!
[21:10:53] You hit for 324 (-62) damage!
[21:11:07] You cast a Fiery Maelstrom (Minor) Spell!
[21:11:07] You hit for 324 (-56) damage!
[21:11:10] You cast a Lesser Conflagration Spell!
[21:11:10] You hit for 324 (-62) damage!
I think you're just a victim of the random number generator. The -56 and -62 interchange between the 2 spells.
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Myreia
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Date Posted:
8/16/04 4:58pm
Subject:
RE: Lifetap vs. spec DD
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"Here is a comparison of two wizard spells that delve for exactly the same amount (108).
Fiery maelstrom (the baseline) is hitting for slightly more, although the extra is being lost to resists:
- You hit for 324 (-62) damage!
Lesser conflagration (the specline) is hitting for 324 for also, although you can see from the log that the damage it would do prior to resists is less:
- You hit for 324 (-56) damage! "
324 obviously is the dmg cap of a 108delve spell
Fiery maelstrom:
You hit for 324 (-62) damage!
You hit for 324 (-56) damage!
Lesser conflagration:
You hit for 324 (-56) damage!
You hit for 324 (-62) damage!
some of those dragonflies just have a different lvl 
a spec and a base spell that delve for the same dmg actually do the same dmg per hit
the real difference seems to be between lifetaps and dds
just compare obsidian strike and essence devourer
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Yukishiro1
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Date Posted:
8/16/04 5:17pm
Subject:
RE: Lifetap vs. spec DD
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"Like I said, DPS is a seperate issue.
Read the first page of this thread. People are talking about acuity and claiming that the lifetap benefits more than the spec DD as acuity increases, making the disparity bigger.
The test above shows that this is not the case. That in fact as acuity increases the spec DD does proportionately more damage than the Lifetap. Per hit.
That test also invalidates the spell damage calculator (which was used to justify the original post).
The point now seems to be that when you look at the faster casting time of the lifetap, the sorc has a higher dps (damage done over time) than a spec DD. "
That was a hypothesis which you've seemed to dispell. Good work - the honest ones of us here are looking for truth, not a stump speech or a lynching.
That doesn't mean that lifetaps arn't on a different formula - of course, it doesn't mean they are, either. More tests are needed.
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Yosarian_
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Date Posted:
8/16/04 5:24pm
Subject:
RE: Lifetap vs. spec DD
- Date Edited:
8/16/04 5:26pm (2 edits total)
Edited By:
Yosarian_
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I agree Yukishiro. I want to know if the lifetaps are on a different formula to DDs, and /or if baseline spells are in a different formula to specline. If both are true then baseline lifetaps could be getting a double bonus - one for being a lifetap and one for being baseline.
I have just charcopied my RR4 SM over to pend so I can test the SM lifetap tomorrow. I have a RM there too so I might be able to get some other useful tests out of it.
btw the log I posted isn't mine, but it was part of a discussion on the TL board which suggested that baseline spells (not lifetaps) get a bonus over specline spells. I'm not assuming that's the case.
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Yukishiro1
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Date Posted:
8/16/04 5:29pm
Subject:
RE: Lifetap vs. spec DD
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You know, in any other industry, if we had a question like this, we'd simply ask the people who did the coding. And yet none of us have even suggested doing this - and we all know why: the person either wouldn't understand our question, wouldn't know, or would give us the wrong information. "Official from Mythic" isn't worth the paper (or bandwidth) it's written on 
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killets
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Date Posted:
8/16/04 5:37pm
Subject:
RE: Lifetap vs. spec DD
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I'm not convinced that baseline DDs have an advantage over specline DDs at the same delve.
I am convinced any type of lifetap is somehow outputting higher damage than an equivalent DD based purely on delve. The obvious DPS advantage of lifetaps, and the lack of any sort of tradeoff for it being a lifetap should be the topic of a separate post. The core issue is why are lifetaps using a different damage calculation than DDs (which incidentally makes them do significantly more damage).
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SythKeeper
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Date Posted:
8/16/04 6:17pm
Subject:
RE: Lifetap vs. spec DD
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So after reading this, it's clear there is a problem, and they need to make all the nukes more uniform as far as DPS is concerned. There is absolutely no reason a base lifetap should be competing with a spec nuke. At all.
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