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Topic:
Void Bolt vs Diff Armor Comparisons
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gweniver
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Date Posted:
1/22/06 3:20pm
Subject:
Void Bolt vs Diff Armor Comparisons
- Date Edited:
1/22/06 3:28pm (2 edits total)
Edited By:
gweniver
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I spend some time over the last week crafting armor on Pendragon to run a few more damage tests.
You may or may not find this useful, I just thought it would be interesting to see on paper how bolt damage differs depending on your target.
Constant:
RR8 Void Eld with:
MoM3, Aug Dex3, WP2 (no aug acuity on this copy)
10% spell pierce, 8% spell damage
46+12 void spec
+100 to int
buffed: 319 int
Casted against 2 different kobolds. One was a Spiritmaster and other was a Shaman. Both had 99qua armor with 26% cold resists
Cloth Caster Test
Spec Bolt | Base Bolt | Void DD
26% cold resist: 584(-51) | 451(-39) | 401(-76)
42% cold resist: 533(-102)| 412(-78) | 324(-153)
50% cold resist: 507(-127)| 388(-97) | 286(-191)
AF and Absorb buff tests (all at 26% cold resist)
Spec Bolt | Base Bolt
Neither up: 1072(-95) | 828(-78)
Only Absorb: 981(-85) | 752(-65)
Only AF: 643(-56) | 501(-44)
AF and Absorb up: 584(-51) | 451(-39)
Leather Test
10% Absorb, AF 102, Mid leather is 10% resistent to cold
Spec Bolt | Base Bolt | Void DD
26% cold resist: 577(-86) | 446(-67) | 401(-76)
42% cold resist: 524(-139)| 405(-108) | 324(-153)
50% cold resist: 497(-166)| 384(-128) | 286(-191)
Studded Test
19% Absorb, AF 102, Mid leather is 5% vulnerable to cold
Spec Bolt | Base Bolt | Void DD
26% cold resist: 578(-18) | 447(-14) | 401(-76)
42% cold resist: 530(-66) | 410(-51) | 324(-153)
50% cold resist: 507(-89)| 391(-69) | 286(-191)
Chain Test
27% Absorb, AF 102
Spec Bolt | Base Bolt | Void DD
26% cold resist: 493(-43) | 381(-33) | 401(-76)
42% cold resist: 451(-86) | 348(-66) | 324(-153)
50% cold resist: 429(-107)| 331(-83) | 286(-191)
And for Comparison:
Light Spec DD
26% cold resist: 489(-93)
42% cold resist: 396(-186)
50% cold resist: 349(-233)
Let me know if you have any questions with this data!
-Gwen
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Co-GM of The Huntsmen of Iseult
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LemoKeain
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Title: The Gerbil King
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Date Posted:
1/22/06 3:48pm
Subject:
RE: Void Bolt vs Diff Armor Comparisons
- Date Edited:
1/22/06 3:49pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
LemoKeain
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so the light DD is about 20% better than the void DD
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McThompson
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Date Posted:
1/22/06 5:28pm
Subject:
RE: Void Bolt vs Diff Armor Comparisons
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Which is exactly the difference in delves between the two - 22.22%. The DD's all work as advertised last time I checked. Note the DPS is not 22.22% different, it's actually less due to the faster casting baseline DD.
But that's not the point of her tests.
**********
AF and Absorb buff tests (all at 26% cold resist)
Spec Bolt | Base Bolt
Neither up: 1072(-95) | 828(-78)
Only Absorb: 981(-85) | 752(-65)
Only AF: 643(-56) | 501(-44)
AF and Absorb up: 584(-51) | 451(-39)
**********
Void bolts hit nothing like my fire wizard did. This shows that AF has a great influence than the absorb buff. I believe people have argued virulently that the Albion spec AF buff was largely irrelevant when it came to nukers -whereas Gwen data here shows it is very important.
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Beastmage
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Date Posted:
1/22/06 6:34pm
Subject:
RE: Void Bolt vs Diff Armor Comparisons
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<<< I believe people have argued virulently that the Albion spec AF buff was largely irrelevant when it came to nukers -whereas Gwen data here shows it is very important. >>>
i think you mean bolters here, not nukers ;P
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McThompson
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Date Posted:
1/22/06 6:48pm
Subject:
RE: Void Bolt vs Diff Armor Comparisons
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Yes I did. Too late to edit. :\
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Vyxar
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Date Posted:
1/22/06 7:21pm
Subject:
RE: Void Bolt vs Diff Armor Comparisons
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To be honest the bolt damage looks fine to me given one small assumption: That the bolts have as good of a chance to hit as a DD spell does. So really that's all I would even ask for with bolts. The there is a small dropoff on medium armor and a significant dropoff on heavy armor and that's completely fine. Albs get the benefit of spec AF buff and that +fire wizard delves do make fire wizard bolts significantly more damaging than void eld bolts which is also fine(with RM's bolts being slightly better than elds but not as good as wizards) and wai given the class design and the added utility elds(and RM's) can subspec for.
The most damning stat you posted is repeated in every test That is the void baseline DD.
26% cold resist: 401(-76)
42% cold resist: 324(-153)
50% cold resist: 286(-191)
Your test was done with a high realm rank caster with exceptionally good gear and stats and you are using a nuke that while being baseline you are still full speced toward and without crits it would take about 5 nukes to kill an average buffed caster with only gear and champion resists. It is what is wrong with the void spec. Put a rr4 eld with the same spec and mediocre gear and it's just beyond absurd. You are adding in all the damage bonuses you can basically get but what is missing is the SB or EM or BAoD or the demoralization or the many other ways caster routinely gets lowered assuming they are casting at all. Mind you I'm not saying any of those things are bad per se I'm just using them to illustrate how inadequate the dd that void elds have is.
The solution is to tack on significant utility/debuff type effects on both the baseline dd and the spec AEDD in the void line and I don't even begin to know what to do with gtae anymore.
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Vyxar
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Leperconvict
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Date Posted:
1/22/06 9:37pm
Subject:
RE: Void Bolt vs Diff Armor Comparisons
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In my opinion, what bolt specs need is sufficient damage to kill casters at 1875 range. As they currently are implemented, bolts simply aren't up to task.
GO ME
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The large print giveth, and the small print taketh away.
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gweniver
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Date Posted:
1/23/06 9:04am
Subject:
RE: Void Bolt vs Diff Armor Comparisons
- Date Edited:
1/23/06 9:09am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
gweniver
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Through December and the first part of January I was spec Void/Light.
The main things I noticed where:
-Bolt damage was decent, but missed too much to rely on the damage.
-There were several times were my bolt damage was just absorbed by DI and I had to then rely on the DD to kill (one time I did over 900 points in damage to a caster and they only lost 20% of their health) :/
-VS. the Alb zerg, being Void spec wasn't too bad as the damage was fairly decent. VS. Mids though who I usually encountered in a 8v8 situation, the damage seemed to be consistantly poor. I often came across groups with high cold resists in addition to having not as many casters.
-Groups with bainshees and mana Elds liked having me in the group for the debuff. I even saw someone asking for a Void Eld at DL one night for a Animist/Bainshee group after running with that person the night before.
-Utility wise, I felt that I gave up disease and the str/con debuff to have a GTAE and the debuffs. The GTAE was nice to have in some situations, but I felt that having the utility in the mana line would be more useful for what my group wants to do over all.
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McThompson
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Date Posted:
1/23/06 10:13am
Subject:
RE: Void Bolt vs Diff Armor Comparisons
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Yeah that damage up against the 50% resist buffs is like tossing marshmallows at them. It would take you 10+ seconds casting uninterrupted (/snicker) to burn through the DI of a higher RR group. But, light faces the same problems. It just hits about 20% harder and you get more nukes off becuase of streamlined power usage.
Back to void, though. I think you've demonstrated that the bolts are not enough to outweight the utility of mana or light. Hell, my spec DD can hit for over 600 against Albs and doens't have the 20 second reuse timer (although I admit, a light eld is nothing but an interrupter against Mids running the typical 50% cold resists).
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Sephiiroth_FireyHot
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Date Posted:
1/27/06 5:25pm
Subject:
RE: Void Bolt vs Diff Armor Comparisons
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"(although I admit, a light eld is nothing but an interrupter against Mids running the typical 50% cold resists). "
This can also be said for Wizards adn Runemasters (though at least RMs get nice tools like PBT, Speed, and Nearsight. Wizards have it *slightly* better in that they have a spec nuke to utilize (though it casts slower and also routinely runs into 50% Heat resists) when bolts aren't the answer to the situation.
Interesting stuff though, to be sure! =)
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Fanglo
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Title: WarVault Staff
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Date Posted:
1/27/06 11:53pm
Subject:
RE: Void Bolt vs Diff Armor Comparisons
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I think one solution would be to give void elds a higher delve aoe. I would love to see a lvl 50 aoe. At least then we could use the aoe to nuke harder than the baseline dd.
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Garbannoch
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Date Posted:
1/28/06 4:57am
Subject:
RE: Void Bolt vs Diff Armor Comparisons
- Date Edited:
1/28/06 5:00am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Garbannoch
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I think that all 3 realm's bolt lines could use a slight boost (although I am quite happy with my fire wizard's performance regarding bolts - general usefulness of the wizard class is a completely different story though)
The best way I think would be to increase the range of the bolt line's base dd to somewhere between 1500 and 1850 range (I would suggest 1650 or 1700). This would mean that the dd could be used more efficiently together with the bolts due to the increased range. This could be done for eldritch, runemaster and wizard alike.
Concerning the damage of bolts: I think bolt damage should be higher on high AF/abs targets - damage on casters is fine imo (would be a bit cheesy if you were guaranteed a 2-hit kill on every caster). I would also like to see the bolt travel speed lowered slightly to improve damage frontloading with dds. Also a 10 or 15 sec reuse timer would be more appropriate.
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Mentalist (6L6), Enchanter (6L2), Bainshee (6L2), Bard (6L0), Heretic (5L8), Spiritmaster (5L2)
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Leperconvict
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Date Posted:
1/28/06 4:12pm
Subject:
RE: Void Bolt vs Diff Armor Comparisons
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No RUT! 
Wait... why not? 
GO ME
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The large print giveth, and the small print taketh away.
<Hugs Are Free>
Pulcinella- Disciple of Khaine
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Pillzy_CKD
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Date Posted:
1/31/06 7:44am
Subject:
RE: Void Bolt vs Diff Armor Comparisons
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Spec nuke of any sort in Void please Gwen.
Thats the only thing that will make the line worth playing.
Ive tried running in 8v8 as void assisting banshees and im pretty much a debuff bot because I have no other spells worth casting. vs groups like Gimps i nuke for 220 max with the base DD.
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gweniver
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Date Posted:
1/31/06 8:27am
Subject:
RE: Void Bolt vs Diff Armor Comparisons
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Pillzy_CKD posted:
Spec nuke of any sort in Void please Gwen.
Thats the only thing that will make the line worth playing.
Ive tried running in 8v8 as void assisting banshees and im pretty much a debuff bot because I have no other spells worth casting. vs groups like Gimps i nuke for 220 max with the base DD.
I here you here on the damage vs Mids. Unfortunately, I've seen poor damage even with the light spec dd also though vs Mids.
Its due to their cold resist buffs.
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Co-GM of The Huntsmen of Iseult
Eldritch Team Lead - Retired
Winner of: Best Female DAOC Costume, 2004, Spring 2005, and 2006 Roundtables
Winner of: Best DAOC Movie, Spring 2005 Roundtable
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Beastmage
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Date Posted:
1/31/06 9:31pm
Subject:
RE: Void Bolt vs Diff Armor Comparisons
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maybe a possibility would be some sort of insta cold debuff in spec void. it doesnt seem like mythic wants to give you more damage options, but arguably this is a utility spell. if they made it right it wouldnt be overpowered either. maybe get it at like 43 void spec with a 20 sec recast, 15% cold debuff. that would give you something similar to wizards dmg/debuff spell but not a copy/paste version of it.
dunno, just a thought.
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