|
|
|
|
|
Lyrre
(Registered)
Posts : 251
|
Creation of a Shadowblade *Updated* |
04/21/04 10:20 AM |
***Latest update: November 2007***
Creation of a Shadowblade
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I see many young Shadowblades come here and ask why we spec specific speclines, how high we should spec skills, what race to choose and where to put starting points.
Thought I write up on what I know about the subject, "Shadowblades"
I hope you can overlook any typos and grammatical errors I may have done in this text, English isn’t my natural tongue, I am a Swede!
Let’s go through the different things that you can alter as a shadowblade, shall we.
Stats:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As a shadowblade you will gain one point of dexterity every level, quickness every second level and strength every third level. This will add up to, 45 points of dexterity, 23 points of quickness and 15 points of strength at level 50.
Strength:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
As shadowblades are restricted to slash weapons only, strength is the only stat that increase our weaponskill (see weaponskill further down). A higher strength will yeild a higher weaponskill, and this leads to a higher damage output and an easier time to penetrate your enemies defence, more about this further down.
Tests have been done and these showed that around the 300 mark in strength, 5 points of strength is almost equal to ~1% damage increase.
Constitution:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This stat determines how many hitpoints a shadowblade will have. Every point of constitution is worth 3.79 hit points as a shadowblade, we get more hit points per constitution than the other rogues (3.59 hp/con). This is our class defining ability.
Dexterity:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This stat is used to determine evade rates and this is the only thing dexterity do for a shadowblade, nothing else. Dexterity and quickness effect evaderate equally much, ((dex+qui)/2).
Dexterity give very diminishingly returns though to evade rates when going past 300 in dexterity.
Quickness:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Together with dexterity, quickness do effect evaderate.
Quickness do also determine at what speed you will swing your weapon(s). Quickness has a roof (cap) at 250 when calculating swingspeed. Going beyond 250 in quickness won’t lower your swingspeed anymore. The cap for swingspeed is also 1.5 seconds, you cant swing faster than this.
Swingspeed calculator: http://www.classesofcamelot.com/Articles.asp?id=26
A sidenote to the swingspeed calculator and swingspeed when dualwielding:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
When dualwielding you will swing both your weapons at the medium speed of the weapons you have equipped.
For an example:
You have a 4.0 speed axe in mainhand and a 2.0 speed axe in offhand, when both weapons swing (leftaxe will always do this, but not Dualwield and Celtic Dual, these two are the dualwield mechanics in albion and hibernia) you will swing them at their average (4+2)/2 = 3 seconds
However, before the "average" calculation is done all things that impact swingspeed are applied to mainhand and offhand separately. ToA haste bonus*, any haste buff*, celerity buff, Quickness higher than 60 (60 quickness is seen as zero percent (0%) haste in swingspeed calculations).
As mentioned above the swingspeed cap is 1.5 seconds, you cant swing faster than that. This leads to that if you have alot of haste, go to the link above, put in 250 quickness, 20% spell haste and a 2.0 speed weapon. You will get that you swing at 1.5 seconds, it is "capped". This means that you could choose a slower weapon, do more damage ( a slower weapon do more damage than a faster weapon), but still swing it at 1.5 seconds "capped" swing speed. If we plug in some number we will come to the conclusion that with 250 quickness and 20% spell haste, all weapons faster than 3.0 speed will cap us, and make us loose damage.
* If you have both ToA haste and a haste buff (from an healer or charge for example), the lower of the two effects are halved! Lets say you have 20% healer haste and 10% ToA haste, it will take the lower and half it, in this case you will end up with a total of 20 + 10/2 = 25% haste.
Where am I going with this?
Well, not everybody knows that the swingspeed calculation is done to each hand separately, before they are averaged, this is where the swingspeed calculator fails.
Lets make an example to clarify it:
My shadowblade is having 250 quickness and 20% healerhaste. I have bought myself a 4.0 speed mainhand axe and a 2.4 speed offhand axe believing this setup would be the best for me. I plug in these numbers into the calculator and get that I will swing at an average of 1.58 seconds.
THIS IS WRONG!
The calculator doesnt calculate each hand separately before the average. So we have to do this by ourselves. We plug in 2.4 speed aswell as 250 quickness and 20% spellhaste. We get as above "capped" speed. We adjust the weaponspeed to a number where we arent capped and see that at 3.0-3.1 is the optimal speed for an offhand weapon, still capped swing speed to get as much "leftaxe haste" as possible and get as much damage as possible at this capped swing speed. Now we can put in 4.0 speed and see what that gives us: 1.98 seconds, a quick calculation gives us that I will swing the 4.0 mainhand and 3.0 offhand at: (1.98+1.5)/2 = 1.74 seconds
We could put in 4.0 and 2.4 separately and then calculate the numbers and see that we would swing that weapon combination at the exact same speed (1.74 seconds) as the 4.0/3.0 speed combination, but the 2.4 offhand axe will do lower damage than the 3.0 offhand axe. So we gain more damage per second (dps) by using a slower offhand weapon, but we swing at the "cap" swing speed!
Conclusion:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
By looking at the importance of different stats we can conclude that Strength, Constitution and a capped Quickness is the most important stats for a shadowblade.
None of the races available to become a shadowblade should ever put any starting points into dexterity since all available races are able to go beyond 300 in dexterity.
The cap at 250 in quickness will be reached by every race except for the Norse that will be nine (9) points from (he will reach 241 fully buffed). So no race except the Norse should ever put any starting points in quickness.
Race recommendation:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I do always recommend norse as the superior race as a shadowblade. Their higher strength and constitution (compared to the other races) combined with them being able to reach both 250 quickness and 300 dexterity will just plain make them better than the other races.
I would rate valkyn as the second best due to their racial resists, frostalv and kobolds are in my opinion on an equal third place, frostalvs get some more strength and con, while the kobold will get higher dexterity and quickness which will allow them to spellcraft less of those stats into their armor.
Start point distribution: (Nowadays you can alter startpoint distribution on already created characters)
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Norse:
10 points each in strength/constitution/quickness, this will allow a norse shadowblade to reach 250 quickness without buying any realm abilities or the need to get any cap increasment in into quickness.
Some go with 15 strength and 10 constitution as norse, I don’t think its worth the points though.
Valkyn/kobold/frostalv:
All these three races will reach 250 quickness, and I would recommend those that want to play one of these races to put 15 points into strength and 10 points into constitution.
Weaponskill:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here comes the hard part… :)
Lets start by saying:
IMPORTANT, the weaponskill displayed in the character user interface (UI) window doesn’t correctly tell the truth. This means that the weaponskill you can read into the game isn’t used in any way, that number isn’t used in any ingame calculations, it is just a graphical “number”.
I quote the grab bag from 2007-07-06
"Q) It had been said in a previous Grab Bag that Weaponskill was tricky in that it was not actually used in calculations, but used many of the same variables. This brings me to my question - What exactly IS weaponskill? What is it calculated from, and what similarities and differences does it share with the calculations from damage output?
A) Weaponskill is not actually used in calculations, this is true. It is heuristic, a number derived from a simplified formula that is used to aid you in determining how your damage output will be affected by changes in your character. It can not be used as an exact determination of how effective your damage or defense penetration is, but it will give you a ballpark idea. If you're looking to get in to the nitty gritty of how your character works, it is best to ignore weaponskill and focus on actual damage done."
So, what is weaponskill? And what will it do for us?
Let’s start with the easy part, what a higher weaponskill will do for us.
What will higher weaponskill do for me?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A higher weaponskill will make us do more damage and let us easier penetrate our enemies defence, such as evade/parry/block. The higher weaponskill we have, the closer to our maximum damage we will reach.
What is weaponskill and how will I raise it?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
No one knows exactly how this works, but this is a simple example of what YOU can do to increase your weaponskill.
Every class in the game is on different “weaponskill tables”, the higher table, the more weaponskill you will gain per point of weaponskill stat you have, where tank classes are on higher tables than rogues are.
Think of it as an equation. Where we have the variables:
X = Weaponskill table, the higher number, the better.
Y = Your weaponskill stat, strength for swords and other slash/crush weapons, (str+dex)/2 for thrust weapons, dex for bows and staves.
With this we can formulate a simple formula:
X*Y = Weaponskill
So, by increasing our weaponskill stat, strength for shadowblades we will achieve a higher weaponskill.
What about our spec? Will it matter for damage and defence penetration?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes!
Also see "Weaponspec and Enervating Poison (EP)" at the end of the document.
Basedamage:
---------------
Damage comes in two portions, base damage, and style damage.
When you swing at someone, without using a style, you will only do basedamage, this basedamage will have a variance. The rule here is that the closer to your level your mainhand weaponspec is, the smaller and tighter this variance will be.
Lets take a very simplified example and assume that you are level 50:
Spec 10 in Your weaponspec and your damage might vary between 10 and 100.
Spec 50 in your weaponspec and your damage might vary between 50 and 100.
This damage variance is minimized when your mainhand weaponspec is equal or higher than your level. This means that at level 50, you need a mainhand weaponspec of a total (composite) of 50 (if you arent using styles from this specline, look further down at styling).
A composite spec is a spec that contains of: Your base spec, any bonuses from realmranks and bonuses from your armor. At level 50 all you need is 35+15 (+15 from realmranks and armor) to minimize the variance on your basedamage, you wont gain any further basedamage by "overspeccing" (going beyond your level) your mainhand weapon (this wont hold true when weaponskill debuffed, you can read about this at the end of this document).
Defence penetration:
------------------------
Here it becomes more complicated…
If you are to use baseweapon styles, styles from axe or sword spec, the higher you spec the better defence penetration you get! Also, different styles penetrate defence better than others. A style with a high to hit bonus, easier penetrates an opponents defence than a low to hit bonus style.
So, if using the style drawout in the swordspec, with a swordspec of 50+15 you will penetrate your opponents defence easier, than if you were specced 35+15 in sword!
However… If you are using styles from an advanced specline, Leftaxe styles or Critical Strike styles, you will reach maximum defence penetration at 50 composite mainhand weaponspec, and the only way to increase any more defence penetration is to increase your strength or use styles with a higher to hit bonus.
Conclusion:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
By having a higher weaponskill you will achieve two thing, you will bypass your opponents defence more often and therefore do more damage AND when you hit your opponent you will do more damage with your hit.
Weaponskill calculator: http://haldar.newmail.ru/daoc/ws *
*Note, this calculator incorrectly shows more weaponskill when going beyond 50 into mainhand weapon spec, just like the game UI shows us the incorrect weaponskill number.
Very important, cant be pushed to often :)
A composite weaponspec of 50 is all you need if you use styles from an advanced specline other than your mainhand spec (Leftaxe and Critical strike), to minimize the basedamage variance and to maximize your chance to bypass your opponents defence.
Speclines:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sword/Axe:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Minimum suggested spec 48-50 composite spec (This means your spec+RR-bonus+spellcrafting), at rr5 all you need is a basespec of 35, 36+4+11=50 if using styles from either Leftaxe or Critical strike
When you spec into a weaponline you do not only gain new styles you will also gain higher weaponskill (see weaponskill above) and when using weaponstyles you use your weaponspec to determine the extra-damage you gain from styling (see styling further down). Every point below 50 composite spec will make you do less basedamage aswell as let your enemies defence work more effectly against you.
Leftaxe:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Minimum suggested spec 45-50 composite spec (This means your spec+RR-bonus+spellcrafting
First important thing to say about leftaxe is that your leftaxe spec determines your offhand damage variance and weaponskill! This means that you want a composite spec of 50 to minimize our basedamage variance (see above) and to maximize our defence penetration on our offhand.
When a shadowblade equip an axe in his lefthand all the damage he do, mainhand AND offhand will be reduced to 62.5%. This is however NOT a damage penalty in any way, we will after all do 62.5*2 = 125% basedamage compared to just wielding a onehanded weapon, this is a bonus, even when specced 1 into leftaxe (this do not entirely hold true though, just because of our offhand weaponskill is determined by our leftaxe spec).
Every extra level the shadowblade raise his leftaxe spec he will raise his basedamage by 0.34% for both the mainhand AND offhand.
The LA base damage adjustment formula is:
B+[(s * A)]=y
where B=62.5%
s = LA spec + items + RR
A = adjustment /train which is 0.34%
What this all adds up to is:
At 1 LA you do 62.5% of EACH hands weapons BASE damage when they hit this means you can do potentially 125% base damage
At realmrank ten, we get 50 + 11 + 9 it will go up to 85.1% for potentially basedamage 170.2%
Another thing that cant be pushed to often.
Your leftaxe spec will also determine your lefthand weaponskill (unlike dualwield and celticdual there the mainhand weaponskill determine the lefthand weaponskill).
Conclusion:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
By speccing high in leftaxe will give you the following:
A higher basedamage, this means you will do more damage with both your mainhand and offhand.
Higher weaponskill on your offhand (up until your weaponspec is equal to your level), this will as previous stated grant lower damage variance and that you will easier bypass your opponents eventual defence, evade/parry/block.
Speccing low in leftaxe will grant the opposite, lower main- AND offhand damage calculated with the above formula.
A lower offhand weaponskill, this will make your offhand damage vary a lot, sometimes it will hit hard sometimes it will hit very weak but you will more often see those weak hits, and your offhand will be evaded/parried/blocked more.
Note:
The 0.34% extra basedamage applied to mainhand and offhand do NOT stop at a composite spec of 50, this gain will continue beyond a composite spec of 50.
Also the leftaxe spec determines your styled damage if you use leftaxe styles when styling (see styling further down).
Critical strike:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Minimum suggested spec, depends on what styles you want to use.
When speccing in critical strike you will not only get new styles, you will also raise the damage you do when using your critical strike styles (see styling further down). Your speclevel in critical strike will NEVER effect your weaponskill on either mainhand or offhand.
Important: Critical strike styles, have some of the highest growthrates in the game and therefore you should spec critical strike high, and use these styles to do as much damage as possible!!!
These styles arent only some of the most damaging in the game, they also have very nice effects, like snare/dehaste/bleed.
Stealth:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Minimum suggested spec 35 (50 modified stealth at RR5)
Stealth gives VERY diminishingly returns, if any, after 50 modified stealth. Some say that go beyond 50 in stealth wont grant you anything others state it does. What stealth over 50 composite spec helps with is in PvE, when facing monsters with a level higher than 50, where you stealth spec is compared to their level. To achive the same "stealthiness" you get against a level 50 opponent in PvP with 50 composite stealth spec, against a level 70 monster, you will need 70 composite stealth spec. Could be useful if doing PvP in areas with high level monsters, but not worth it.
Stealth is determined by your spec, bonus from items and bonus from realmrank (RR). You want to keep your stealth as close to 50 composite spec as possible.
At realmrank 5 you will need 35 in base stealth to reach 50 in modified stealth
35 base +11 from items +4 from realmrank = 50
The higher stealth you have the harder your opponent will have in detect you. The higher stealth will also grant you faster movement while in stealth, at 50 modified stealth you will move as fast as you can and going beyond 50 wont give you any speed increase. Only the realm ability “mastery of stealth” will gain you a faster movement in stealth when you already have a 50 modified stealth. The maximum movement speed is achieved when having a composite spec equal to your level, a level 24 character with 24 stealth spec, will in other words move faster while stealthed than a level 50 character with 45 stealth spec!
You should always plan your stealth spec ahead, spec for RR4-RR5. A shadowblade have to few specpoints to spec for lower realmranks.
In my opinion, the highest a new shadowblade should spec stealth is 36, this will give a modified stealth of 49 at RR3 and 50 at RR4.
Stealth do nowadays autotrain automatically and every fourth (4) level you will gain extra spec points wether you have trained in stealth or not.
Level:
8 ---> 2 extra specpoints
12 ---> 5 extra specpoints
16 ---> 9 extra specpoints
20 ---> 14 extra specpoints
24 ---> 20 extra specpoints
28 ---> 27 extra specpoints
32 ---> 35 extra specpoints
36 ---> 44 extra specpoints
40 ---> 54 extra specpoints
44 ---> 65 extra specpoints
48 ---> 77 extra specpoints
Envenom:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Minimum suggested spec 22 (37 and second best debuff at RR5), preferably 32 and last enervating at rr5.
Your envenom skill work just like stealth, it is determined by your basespec + bonus from items + bonus from realmrank.
So at realmrank 5 with a basespec of 35 in envenom you will be able to use the last poison that has level 50.
The most important poison your shadowblade have is the debuff, the debuff will both lower your opponent weaponskill and lower their constitution and thereby lower their total hitpoints.
The last debuff at level 47 will lower your opponents maximal hitpoints by ~350-500 hitpoints depending on the class you are attacking. You will for an example debuff another assassin for 3.6*108 = 389 hitpoints.
Therefore should a shadowblade plan his envenom spec around what level of debuff he plan to use, or what poisons he want to use.
Poison list: http://daoc.catacombs.com/display_spells.cfm?Shadowblade
Many claim that the second best debuff at level 37 is all they need and other swear by the last debuff at level 47. Some play without any envenom spec at all, don’t ask me how though :)
The chance to resist a poison is determined by the level of poison compared to the level of your opponent. Therefore will a lower level poison be resisted more in RvR.
VERY IMPORTANT: You can use items with envenom skill on them when you apply envenom to allow you to apply higher level poison.
Example: You are realmrank 5 and have a baseskill off 32 in envenom, you want to apply the level 47 debuff poison and don’t have any envenom skill on your spellcrafted armour or jewellery.
By switching two items on your armour, lets say you have a pair of gloves with 4 envenom skill and a pair of boots with 7 envenom skill on them you will now have:
32 base +4 RR +11 from items = 47
Now you are able to apply the last debuff and when you have done this you can change back to your ordinary gloves and boots, and the last debuff will still stay on the weapon. This is a trick almost all shadowblades use to free up some imbue points when spellcrafting his armour.
A sidenote to envenom is that the damage you do with your Damage over Time (DoT) poison, use your envenom skill to determine its damage variance, just like mainhand weapon. By having your envenom spec as close to your level as possible you will do the most damage on your DoT's, this is however something that VERY few assassins uses, the cost in the extra need of +11 envenom in the armor cost to much in other areas to be worth it.
Styling:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
This chapter I will try to keep very simplified and those who want to go deeper can check this url:
http://daoc.nisrv.com/modules.php?name=Weapon_Style_Faq
When you swing at someone you will do an amount of basedamage, this is the damage you do when you are swinging without styling.
The basedamage for a shadowblade is determined by the following:
Your leftaxe spec, the higher spec, the higher basedamage.
The speed on the weapon you use.
The dps on the weapon you use
Also your weaponskill will determine the variance on basedamage, (this mean mainhandspec (up until when your spec is equal to your level) and strength determines your mainhand damagevariance, and your leftaxespec (up until when your spec is equal to your level) and strength determines your offhand damagevariance).
To attain higher basedamage you will need high leftaxespec, a composite spec of 50 in mainhand weapon and as high weaponskill stat as possible, in our case, strength.
When you use a weaponstyle you will add damage to your basedamage. Lets take a very simplified example.
You swing against an opponent and hit for the same, for the ease of it, unstyled damage (basedamage) every round. Lets assume the damage is 100.
Now when you use a style you add the style-damage to this basedamage, the added style damage is different for different styles and also gets higher the higher you are specced into the line you use styles from. There are different “growth rates” for different styles, the higher “growth rate” on the style you use the higher damage you will do.
Link to growth rates: http://daoc.nisrv.com/modules.php?name=Weapon_Style_Faq&file=midgard (for crit strike growth rates, look under hibernia styles)
Lets assume we use a style that give us 50 extra damage when specced to a certain amount in our style line (very simplified, there are exact formulas on the internet page above) you will do:
100 basedamage + 50 styled damage = 150 total damage
To raise the style portion of the damage you either need to use a style with a higher "growth rate" or spec higher in the weapon spec you use styles from.
Basedamage and styledamage isnt in any way linked to eachother, so you can do very high basedamage and still do low styledamage (due to certain abilitys in the game) and also the other way around.
This also applies to the leftaxe basedamage modifier, this DO NOT effect style damage in any way, this is often misunderstood.
This is the easy explanation to how styling work :)
VERY IMPORTANT:
If you use critical strike styles the game engine use your critical strike speclevel to determine your styled damage, if you use sword/axe styles the game engine use your sword/axe speclevel to determine your styled damage, if you use leftaxe styles the game engine use your leftaxe speclevel to determine your styled damage.
The higher speclevel you have in the specline you use styles from the higher styledamage you will do.
Example: The higher swordspec you have the higher damage you do with your swordstyles, the higher leftaxespec you have the higher damage you do with your leftaxestyles etc.
Conclusion:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A shadowblade that use critical strike styles in combat want to have:
50 composite mainhandspec to grant the highest possible basedamage and lowest basedamage variance.
High leftaxespec for higher basedamage on both mainhand and offhand from the leftaxe formula above. Also want to have at least 50 composite leftaxe spec to grant the lowest basedamage variance on his offhand.
High critical strike spec to gain higher styled damage when using critical strike styles.
At the same time he want ~35 stealth and decent envenom level :)
How should I be speccing my shadowblade?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I used the second best enervating all the way until I dinged realmrank 6, respecced and got the last enervating and lifebane with viper. At this point I didnt know how I had been playing without the last debuff and DoT. I did however use the second best debuff and a lower DoT in the old frontier, this was before we had access to Viper and the debuff still was str/con.
The access to the last debuff is in my opinion, one of the largest factor in winning fights against other assassins that neglect using remedy, and also to be able to kill "tankclasses".
This do however lead to some speccing problem, due to shadowblades "need" to spec leftaxe fairly high unlike our counter assassins in the other realms. This comes down to some spec choices.
These are some recommendations on how to spec, changes can easily be done to alter them to fit a lower than RR5 shadowblade.
* You spec for RR5 and do, composite 50 into mainhand, stealth, leftaxe, 39 into critstrike for decent damage and are able to attain last debuff at RR4, this wont give you the leftaxe stun at level 39 however, but there is a two step stun at levlel 34 in the axe line. You will use your Critical strike styles in combat.
Would look like the following:
35 sword/axe (axe has a two step stun at level 34)
35 stealth
35 leftaxe
39 critstrike
33 envenom
* You spec for rr5 and want higher damage from your critstyles and can live with the second best debuff and a lower DoT, you get the leftaxe stun, and third style into the evade-chain from critstyles, speccing as follow. You use crit strike styles, backed up with the leftaxe stun, and can switch to the crit strike evade chain if the "enemy" already is stun immune.
35 sword/axe
35 stealth
39 leftaxe
44 critstrike
22 envenom
* You spec for rr5 and go the "shadowzerker" route, do attain last debuff and good melee damage at lower realmranks on the cost of not having crit strike styles with their utility. Going Shadowzerker I would also recommend to spec axe as mainhand weapon, just due to the "pillager" style that has a "dehaste" component that makes your opponent swing slower, use this ones and then go back to using leftaxe styles.
Oftenly using the style Double frost backed up with the evade chain. The behind chain and side chain in leftaxe is very high damaging. The leftaxe style at 25 spec is also a 5 second stun from the side.
35 axe
35 stealth
50 leftaxe
10 critstrike (for backstab 2, this style from stealth will penetrate caster bladeturn spell aka "bubble")
35 envenom
Twohanded weapons for a shadowblade
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The shadowblade is the only of the three assassin classes that can equip a twohanded weapon, this is a midgard inherit ability and not a class defining ability.
When equipping a twohanded weapon the leftaxe modifier is nullified and plays no role in damage dealt, very obvious but worth mention :)
There is a twohander basedamage adjustment much like the Left Axe modifier and the formula is:
X+[(S * A)]=Y
where X=110% (this 10% bonus to basedamage is granted in all three realms when equipping a twohanded weapon)
S = Weapon spec + items + RR
A = adjustment /train which is 0.5%
Y = Total basedamage
For example:
A shadowblade equips a twohanded sword, and he is specced 44+15 in sword, we plug in this into the twohanded formula and get: 110 + (59 * 0.5) = 139.5% basedamage, compared to if the shadowblade had been using a onehanded weapon of the same speed and with the same dps.
The use of a twohanded weapon is very situational for most shadowblades and breed and butter for other shadowblades.
There is a damage bonus on the Perforate Artery (PA) style when using a twohander instead of a onehander also, making twohanded PA's hit for more damage. However, since the swingspeed is slower, the damage over time is very close to a PA with two weapons. But those big hits will make some nice screen shots!
Also many shadowblades switch to the twohander when going through the evadechain in critical strike, hamstring-leaper-rib separation, to achieve as much damage as possible.
The twohanded spec is also a viable spec at lower levels, when specpoints is lacking.
Speccing with twohanded weapons in mind:
----------------------------------------------------
Either you go the whole way, and spec for using only twohanded weapons and neglect LA spec for dualwielding. You want both high weaponspec and Critical strike spec to do as much damage as possible with your styles and added twohanded bonus to basedamage. Could look like something like this:
44 sword/axe
35 stealth
44 critstrike
35 envenom
You can also spec some Leftaxe to be able two switch to dualwield, to swing faster and also to apply more poisons on your opponent, most people spec leftaxe to 25 to achieve the sidestun style. Still want high mainhand spec for the twohanded basedamage bonus when wielding a twohanded weapon aswell.
At realmrank 5 there isn’t enough specpoints to achieve both the evadechain in sword and the last DoT in envenom, some people choose to lower leftaxe to get both and neglect the sidestun, some lower weaponspec one step to 38 and go axe for the twopart stun at level 34 instead and some people just doesn’t care about the last DoT.
A spec that is becoming more and more popular looks like this:
38/39 sword/axe (Sword has a twopart evade chain at level 39 and axe at level 34)
35 stealth
25 leftaxe (For the sidestun at level 25)
44 critstrike
35/34 envenom
Weaponspec and Enervating Poison (EP):
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The EP has two components, it debuffs the opponents weaponspec and it debuffs the opponents constitution.
All assassins get the realmrank 5 ability Remedy, that when used by your opponent neglects all posions applied on your opponent. However, before realmrank 5, there is a big uphill battle to fight other assassins that has and use remedy. Lets take a look at the last EP, it debuffs 19% weaponskill and 108 points of constitution.
This is where it helps to overspec your mainhand weapon, this will work as a "weaponskill" pool when debuffed.
We know from earlier, that a composite spec of 50 in your mainhand will give you best basedamage and defence penetration when dualwielding and using advanced styles. What the EP do, is to lower your 50 spec by 19% down to:
50 * 0.81 = 40.5 specs in weapon
This will make your basedamage go down, and your defence penetration will be worse. To neglect this, you can "overspec", after a short calculation we get:
50 = X * 0.81 ---> X = 50/0.81 ---> X = 61.7 ~ 62
To fully neglect the weaponskill debuff part, you need a composite spec of 62 in your mainhand spec. But this is very costly to a lower realmrank player, but every point helps.
Hope this will help some people and hope at least some of you out there have had the patience to actually read through all of it.
If there is any question or anything that is unclear just ask and I'll try to answer.
Larre, Shadowblade Officer in Svea Ulvar Prydwen Server, Europe |
|
PL@GUE
(Registered)
Posts : 107
|
RE: An explanation what a SB gain from speccing his skills (very long) |
04/21/04 11:22 AM |
...clapping.....
Just want to say this has to be the best sb post i ever read. Great work on putting this together with websites to help those new sb out there. Everything here is true and it even help me understand some things I already new. Just puts the big picture together for me hehe.
Thanks for your effort and time! |
|
kvzr
(Registered)
Posts : 10
|
RE: An explanation what a SB gain from speccing his skills (very long) |
04/21/04 11:51 AM |
Nice post Lyrre! good job :)
Make this one sticky plz?
Btw, isnt it only PA and Backstab which is calculated by the CS line? correct me if im wrong here :) |
|
Stumpy
(Registered)
Posts : 401
|
RE: An explanation what a SB gain from speccing his skills (very long) |
04/21/04 2:17 PM |
bump
Nice job Lyrre.....I was planning on doing this but you beat me to it :P
Very well done....
/salute
Lortaine 50 SB RR7L9, ML9 Spymaster Ethem 50 Warrior RR6L9, ML10 Battlemaster Kaivik 50 Spiritmaster RR7L2, ML7 Convoker Member of Maven |
|
DrOctober
(Registered)
Posts : 1431
|
RE: An explanation what a SB gain from speccing his skills (very long) |
04/22/04 7:58 AM |
All CS style damage is figured with your net CS spec.
It's PA, BS, and BS2 that are the odd ducks with their VERY different growth patterns.
----- This message will self destruct in 10 seconds ----- A military operation involves deception. Even though you are competent, appear to be incompetent. Though effective, appear to be ineffective. Sun-tzu (~400 BC), The Art of War. Strategic Assessments |
|
Lyrre
(Registered)
Posts : 251
|
RE: An explanation what a SB gain from speccing his skills (very long) |
04/22/04 9:18 AM |
^^^^
What october said :) Larre, Shadowblade Officer in Svea Ulvar Prydwen Server, Europe |
|
Angvir
(Registered)
Posts : 243
|
RE: An explanation what a SB gain from speccing his skills (very long) |
04/22/04 11:40 AM |
Very nice, this needs to be a sticky right up there with ivans guide.
Anvir the ShadowBlade / Pellinor Demean the Warrior / Pellinor |
|
v4nd3l
(Registered)
Posts : 9
|
RE: An explanation what a SB gain from speccing his skills (very long) |
04/24/04 1:56 PM |
shameless bump
STICKY THIS!!! |
|
Kemplar
(Registered)
Posts : 8
|
RE: An explanation what a SB gain from speccing his skills (very long) |
04/27/04 10:19 AM |
Thanks for the info. This is very helpful for those of us thinking about starting new SB's. Kemplar 50 Warrior Midgard/Merlin |
|
doeridid
(Registered)
Posts : 9285
|
RE: An explanation what a SB gain from speccing his skills (very long) |
04/27/04 5:59 PM |
This may have been posted for SBs, but with the exception of the race discussion will work just as well for Infils and NSs. It'd be nice to have it copied and stickied in their forums too...
Hell, this is so well written that I'd put it in all primary melee classes- even hybrids like Thanes and Champions. They can edit out the stealth and envenom stuff easy enough, but the rest is still golden.
Quote from Dirshaun -Intelligent discourse with someone who has intellect is is far more gratifying then nearly any other pursuit. I enjoy the debate, even if I lose. In this case I really can't lose because I learn more about the game. |
|
Thokk121
(Registered)
Posts : 63
|
RE: An explanation what a SB gain from speccing his skills (very long) |
04/29/04 7:15 AM |
wow, i msut say, thanks alot Lyyre, i've been searching through these SB forums for bloody ages, and finally somones sent me ehre.. and my god, its explained everythin i wanted 2 know!!
Anyhow, i'm starting my SB soon, so i'll use this thread to help me, and Ivan's guide for the lvling :) thanks alot Lyyre! great job!!!
PS: I'll link this to any threads i read that need your help :) If Life Wasn't Hard... Where's The Challenge? |
|
Isaacsdada
(Registered)
Posts : 1055
|
RE: An explanation what a SB gain from speccing his skills (very long) |
04/29/04 8:54 AM |
This is a very nice post........I played a LA sb before the nerf, and before toa came out........are there any recent posts on this sb forum that can suggest a guide for the person wanting to /20 a sb and what would be a recommended spec for the left axe sb through thid and cale.......would it be advisable to figure in cs into the equation now? Vegetarian: Old slang term for the village idiot who could not fish, hunt or ride. |
|
Pocketsized
(Registered)
Posts : 264
|
RE: An explanation what a SB gain from speccing his skills (very long) |
04/29/04 2:07 PM |
Very nice post, a couple of remarks.
Unlike most people think, autotrain ISN'T screwed on non-/level chars as soon as you put a point in the skill. Just keep it under the meant value for a given level.
I had 4 stealth before lvl 20 and didn't touch it afterwards. By 20 I got 5 skill, free. (This because I changed my mind about autotrain and didn't bother restarting, lost 9 points, big deal)
Worked the same with a paladin, had 4 slash, got 5 automatically by lvl 20. (That's because it was my first char and I knew jack diddly about autotrain, nor did I bother checking the online manual :P)
I have a question though.
Using /respec on an autotrain skill doesn't add the free points to your spec point pool, right? What happens then when you respec after RR5 with a stone to keep your stealth at 50? Does your autotrain get busted or is your skill sent back to 12 (like auto 48) and the remaining points put in the pool? ____________________________ Keep your dirty bytes off my harddrive you filthy ToA junk! >.< Pocketsized Nailgun, Kobold Hunter Member of Svea Ulvar, Prydwen (Europe) |
|
Lyrre
(Registered)
Posts : 251
|
RE: An explanation what a SB gain from speccing his skills (very long) |
04/29/04 2:26 PM |
A non autotrained character will have 3253 skill points the one that autotrained will have 3330.
When you respec stealth ( for example at rr5) your stealth will be lowered to 12 that is the minimum an assassin can have in stealth. The cost to bring the stealth skill is taken from the total skill point pool, this mean it cost 77 points to train stealth from 1 to 12, now the non autotrained char will have 3253-77=3176 skillpoints left to use on skills and the fully autotrained char will have 3253 skillpoints to use on skills.
You will never, ever loose your autotrained points, i have respecced 3 times and havent lost mine. Larre, Shadowblade Officer in Svea Ulvar Prydwen Server, Europe |
|
Pocketsized
(Registered)
Posts : 264
|
RE: An explanation what a SB gain from speccing his skills (very long) |
04/30/04 7:43 AM |
Ok...
Well from what I see in your guide, what you suggest is pretty much... "High everything" hehehe...
You got any favourite template(s)? Beside the "Bile-specc/soulblade" 39/39/39/35/23
____________________________ Keep your dirty bytes off my harddrive you filthy ToA junk! >.< Pocketsized Nailgun, Kobold Hunter Member of Svea Ulvar, Prydwen (Europe) |
|
Stumpy
(Registered)
Posts : 401
|
RE: An explanation what a SB gain from speccing his skills (very long) |
04/30/04 8:59 AM |
I may not be Lyrre, but I have tested almost every single SB spec on Pendragon....I will give you the list of my favorite 3....
1.) "True 5-Spec"
39 Sword/Axe
39 LA
34 CS
35 Stealth
30 Envenom
2.) "Bile 5-Spec"
39 Sword/Axe
39 LA
39 CS
35 Stealth
23 Envenom
3. "Shadowzerker"
44 Sword/Axe
44 LA
10 CS
35 Stealth
33 Envenom
These are my favorite 3 specs....you don't need to autotrain to get these specs and they are all based on LA, which I think has GREAT utility....it has a 7 second stun off an evade chain and a nice rear positional chain after BS2....I personally think that Sword is better than Axe because you don't have to wait 30 minutes to summon 2 Sun Weapons and use them....
The weapons that I used for my tests were Sun Weapons, LA activated Traitor's Dagger, LA activated Malice Axe, and 2 TG weapons.....I found that if you don't spec high in LA, you have to rely on 1 attack to win....PA.....if you miss PA or miss CD, 95% of the time you are dead.....with a high spec in LA, you have the option of another 7 second stun off an evade chain.....you can evade then Comeback/Frosty Gaze/Hamstring/Leaper/Hamstring/Leaper and they are most likely dead or about dead.....
I hope the information helps :P
Lortaine 50 SB RR7L9, ML9 Spymaster Ethem 50 Warrior RR6L9, ML10 Battlemaster Kaivik 50 Spiritmaster RR7L2, ML7 Convoker Member of Maven |
|
Pocketsized
(Registered)
Posts : 264
|
RE: An explanation what a SB gain from speccing his skills (very long) |
04/30/04 12:08 PM |
I see... How about a variation of Bile-spec, kinda like the Zorlock from Ivanovich's guide
CS 44
Weapon 34
Stealth 35
LA 39
Envenom 25
(auto to 48)
Sounds nice for the full PA and Hamstring chains, still have the LA stun on evade, and second best debuff by RR2, possibly 47 Env in the long run with stealth respec. Might rely a bit too much on evade though.
(Might as well have posted that elsewhere though that post isn't stickied yet, so bump bump :D ) ____________________________ Keep your dirty bytes off my harddrive you filthy ToA junk! >.< Pocketsized Nailgun, Kobold Hunter Member of Svea Ulvar, Prydwen (Europe) |
|
Lyrre
(Registered)
Posts : 251
|
RE: An explanation what a SB gain from speccing his skills (very long) |
04/30/04 1:07 PM |
Imo, yoou will have to little weaponskill with only 34 weaponspec and this will do that your enemies will evade your mainhand more often.
you do more damage with 39 weapon 39 cs than with 34 weapon 44 cs over time, since you will be less evaded. Larre, Shadowblade Officer in Svea Ulvar Prydwen Server, Europe |
|
Stumpy
(Registered)
Posts : 401
|
RE: An explanation what a SB gain from speccing his skills (very long) |
04/30/04 2:16 PM |
imo....any melee class who has less than 39 in weapon spec is gimp....with less than 39 weapon spec, your weapon skill will be that of a caster :P
you need to have AT LEAST 39 in your main weapon spec....and if you are going to use LA, go at 39 or go 0.....
Lortaine 50 SB RR7L9, ML9 Spymaster Ethem 50 Warrior RR6L9, ML10 Battlemaster Kaivik 50 Spiritmaster RR7L2, ML7 Convoker Member of Maven |
|
Lyrre
(Registered)
Posts : 251
|
RE: An explanation what a SB gain from speccing his skills (very long) |
05/05/04 7:13 AM |
Selfish bump ;) Larre, Shadowblade Officer in Svea Ulvar Prydwen Server, Europe |
|
seeph
(Registered)
Posts : 423
|
RE: An explanation what a SB gain from speccing his skills (very long) |
05/06/04 3:45 AM |
STICKY PLEAASE Seeph warrior RR4L7 Excalibur 1117 Weaponcraft Sjantal augmend Healer RR3L9 Excalibur Djark lvl 50 Hunter RR4L6 Excalibur Seephbuffer lvl 50 48aug Buffbot RR3L2 Doodslag lvl 50 SB 3L0 Seeph BM lvl 48 rr2L3 Prydwen |
|
DrOctober
(Registered)
Posts : 1431
|
RE: An explanation what a SB gain from speccing his skills (very long) |
05/07/04 7:58 AM |
I'm surprised this hasn't become a sticky yet. Very solid information for pretty much every assassin class, as well as juicy tidbits for virtually everyone that will ever spec in a weapon or weapons.
----- This message will self destruct in 10 seconds ----- A military operation involves deception. Even though you are competent, appear to be incompetent. Though effective, appear to be ineffective. Sun-tzu (~400 BC), The Art of War. Strategic Assessments |
|
Krazyhorse
(Registered)
Posts : 235
|
RE: An explanation what a SB gain from speccing his skills (very long) |
05/11/04 1:35 PM |
bump, please make this a sticky for new people, this is a great piece. Krazyhorse(50)ML10 Shadowblade Grandmasta(50)ML10 Shammy Hellshaker(50)ML10 Warlock |
|
Tulsa
(Registered)
Posts : 6
|
RE: An explanation what a SB gain from speccing his skills (very long) |
05/12/04 4:08 PM |
Great Post! THANKS!
And a question for Stumpy...
" 3. "Shadowzerker"
44 Sword/Axe
44 LA
10 CS
35 Stealth
33 Envenom"
Why not this?
3. "Shadowzerker"
44 Sword/Axe
44 LA
15 CS
35 Stealth
32 Envenom
Lose 1 point of Env for one or two CS styles, plus no wasted points, and without any autotraining.
I'm just curious if there's a reason to have that extra point of Envenom skill, that's all. |
|
Maroonfacelift
(Registered)
Posts : 49
|
RE: An explanation what a SB gain from speccing his skills (very long) |
05/12/04 9:22 PM |
the crit strike styles at 15 CS aren't really worth it you get hamstring and thighcut... you wont use hamstring because you are using the LA evade chain and you wont use thighcut off of backstab 2 because you would use the LA rear chain so 15 CS isn't really worth it also at 33 envenom you get the last str/con debuff at rr4 and lifebane at rr 7 at 32 envenom you get last str/con at rr5 and lifebane at rr8 not that big of a difference but sometiems it is better not to wait. hope that answers youre question even though I am not stumpy
|
|
| Page 1 2 |
Artwork and screen shots Copyright © 2001-2003 Mythic Entertainment, Inc. All rights reserved. Used with permission of Mythic Entertainment.
Mythic Entertainment, the Mythic Entertainment logo, "Dark Age of Camelot," "Shrouded Isles," the Dark Age of Camelot and Shrouded Isles logos, and the stylized Celtic knot are trademarks of Mythic Entertainment, Inc.
|
|
|
