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Logs of hunter/ranger melee/bow damage comparrison (Long)
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wyrd77
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Date Posted:
7/19/03 10:31am
Subject:
RE: Logs of hunter/ranger melee/bow damage comparrison (Long)
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Slitz, you tried.
Just let him get the last word and move on. You cant convince him. He doesnt care what the facts are, only that he wants to complain about how he is the underdog and how great he is because he can overcome the barriers.
Seriously, Ive had many a "discussion" with Swift where I have laid out the simple math in front of him and he refuses to look at it. He *is* a board troll, and there is nothing we can do about it. The bottom line is...
Dont Feed the Trolls
Nice try though, Slitz.
Wyrd
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Swiftdeathz
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Date Posted:
7/19/03 10:40am
Subject:
RE: Logs of hunter/ranger melee/bow damage comparrison (Long)
- Date Edited:
7/19/03 10:45am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Swiftdeathz
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" Slitz, you tried."
Tried to flame me yes he did...
"Just let him get the last word and move on. You cant convince him. He doesnt care what the facts are, only that he wants to complain about how he is the underdog and how great he is because he can overcome the barriers."
Yes let me winzor!!! But it's ironic Wyrd talking about complaining and touting about facts when he was the main attributer to the LA nerf that over-nerfed SB's... He sure knows his stuff..
"Seriously, Ive had many a "discussion" with Swift where I have laid out the simple math in front of him and he refuses to look at it. He *is* a board troll, and there is nothing we can do about it. The bottom line is..."
Where you laied out the math that gets people nerfed... Not the simple math when it's needed to get the classes that need help boosted... Also cute to be called a board troll by a person with as many posts as me that still trolls the gaming forum for a game he doesn't even play anymore... I'm also sure all those 3300 posts were all useful relevant info... /rolls eyes
"Dont Feed the Trolls"
Yes don't feed Wyrd!
"Nice try though, Slitz."
Not nice... Very weak try Slitz...
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wyrd77
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Date Posted:
7/19/03 10:54am
Subject:
RE: Logs of hunter/ranger melee/bow damage comparrison (Long)
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*shrug*
I helped the Devs make a better game. Its too bad it didnt come until a time where the game was dying off on its own anyways. LA was overpowered. We all knew it. It was proven in multiple ways. Then the Devs proved it themselves. Are there quirks that may be hurting SB's? Sure, why not. Was I arguing to fix those BEFORE the LA patch was introduced? Yup. Seriously, dont talk about poo you simply dont know.
Im only here because I wanted to know who was still around. I read the forums, and I despise ignorance. Im sorry, I cant help reading something that is just wrong and just move past. Its a problem Ill have to deal with. (Not to mention when I hop on IRC, the first thing I get are 20 PM's asking why/how poo works in the game)
Anyways,
Enjoy your lil pissing match Swift. I love how quickly you take the argument from how the game works to "Youre a stupid poo poo head". Wasnt there some rule about slander on these boards? Why do they keep letting you post? Havent you been banned like 20 times now? When people come up and tell you that youre wrong for the 50th time... perhaps you should reconsider your PoV.
Wyrd
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Swiftdeathz
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Date Posted:
7/19/03 11:00am
Subject:
RE: Logs of hunter/ranger melee/bow damage comparrison (Long)
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Thought you weren't going to feed the 'troll'... hypocrisy must run deep in your veins... 
"I helped the Devs make a better game. Its too bad it didnt come until a time where the game was dying off on its own anyways. LA was overpowered. We all knew it. It was proven in multiple ways. Then the Devs proved it themselves. Are there quirks that may be hurting SB's? Sure, why not. Was I arguing to fix those BEFORE the LA patch was introduced? Yup. Seriously, dont talk about poo you simply dont know."
No you convinced the devs to over-nerf a class that was not in need of a nerf if you looked at the grand scheme of PVP and the tools at hand to the nefed classes... Even though this was brought up to your attention it was not enough to de-rail you from your vendetta...
SB's are now on the bottom of the food chain as far as assassins are concerned... You've moved them from a state of somewhat top to bottom...
"Im only here because I wanted to know who was still around. I read the forums, and I despise ignorance. Im sorry, I cant help reading something that is just wrong and just move past. Its a problem Ill have to deal with. (Not to mention when I hop on IRC, the first thing I get are 20 PM's asking why/how poo works in the game)"
Yes if that's what you need to tell yourself... You are here because you enjoy trolling these boards like so many others that have quit... It's just funny for a board troll to call another person a board troll...
"Anyways,
Enjoy your lil pissing match Swift. I love how quickly you take the argument from how the game works to "Youre a stupid poo poo head". Wasnt there some rule about slander on these boards? Why do they keep letting you post? Havent you been banned like 20 times now? When people come up and tell you that youre wrong for the 50th time... perhaps you should reconsider your PoV."
kk thx will do... I haven't been banned once because I don't do anything wrong... I post generally positive things on these boards... Only time I flame is to defend myself from board trolls like yourself that have a hard on to h8 me...
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Stabalot
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Date Posted:
7/19/03 11:03am
Subject:
RE: Logs of hunter/ranger melee/bow damage comparrison (Long)
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Damnit its true, I cant hit over 551 base dmg with my 5.0 spd spear!! :P
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Swiftdeathz
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Date Posted:
7/19/03 11:07am
Subject:
RE: Logs of hunter/ranger melee/bow damage comparrison (Long)
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" Damnit its true, I cant hit over 551 base dmg with my 5.0 spd spear!! "
Ouchies... >_<
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Demonio BD, Enthusiast Healer, Nukey WL, Swiftdeathz Hunter http://www.rpgfilms.net/nuke/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=search&query=Swiftdeathz also search for my Warlock vid Dwarf Hunter, Nukez Gnome Warlock - WOW (Alleria)
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DAoC_Guy
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Date Posted:
7/19/03 11:51am
Subject:
RE: Logs of hunter/ranger melee/bow damage comparrison (Long)
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>>Not directly... I don't mind a heated discussion through a forum but I'll be damn If i'm gonna get all 'buddy' with you through PM's or IRC...
Swift, this post is about Hunter/Ranger melee/bow comparisons. Continued spamming of the same personal flames over and over should go to PMs. I do not want a pen pal, neither do I want a degenerating post.
>>Sure you are... Or you would have never posted your original 'wah' flame post at me... You would have taken the death and moved on... And it's as simple as that...
Swift, I made a post about a dissappointment I had in you and why. There was nothing any deeper or darker to it. And there's definately nothing more that needs to be discussed about it. The simple fact is, this is not that post. This is another post about an issue, where I have not attacked you. I have commended and thanked you for many of your observations here, and have then and only now asking you to not keep bringing up personal issues you have with me in this post. Taking it to PMs I felt was a very valid and smart suggestion, but if you feel by doing so you are some how giving in to me or trying to be my friend that is fine...but why keep bringing up the same personaly issues over and over and over? I'm not, I've let it go and moved on. The last several posts I have made on this topic has been having to nicely ask you to stay on topic.
>>Then quit asking to talk through PMs... I don't need to take something that was created by a flaming POS who now wants me to take it and shut up when you were the one who should have done that...
I just addressed the PM issue in an above response. This is not the same post where I said I did not like you and why. I have moved on from that. This is an entirley different post, with an entirely different subject, with me not flaming you. There's nothing in this post you have to "take", there is not me flaming you here. What are you trying to defend against? I'm ot attacking you, I'm posting logs and asking others their opinions concerning these logs and encouraging others to post their own logs. Swift, there is nothing here atatcking you. I do not understand what you are trying to defend.
>>Sure there is... Everytime you bring up my name regarding this subject that was brought upon by your flame I sure as hell will talk about it... Need to spread the word to VN about how much of a whiner you can be...
Swift, this post is not about you, it is not about somethin you or I created. It is a discussion about Hunter/Ranger melee/bow issues which has always been around. I'm not going to flame you in this post, and I have not. I do appreciate many of your on topic comments you have made. I hope you continue to make more.
>>No but it's about an incident about me or this post would have never materialized...
No Swift, this post is not about an incident between you and me. It is not even being discussed here. It is about a subject that got brought up in another post. A subject that has been brought up in countless other posts on a dialy basis. Everyone has moved on, and the vast majority have accapted and appreciated this post for what it is...a discussion of hunter/ranger bow/melee damage.
Yes and i'm still waiting for a response...
>>None of course none, you only respond to what you care about and what suits you on your quest...
I did not realize you wanted me to give you my opinion of your opinions. I will do so now though:
>>Then you'd have to take more than 9 duels here and 9 duels there...
I agree. Stardoag done all we could do in the time contsraints we had.
>>then you'd take at least 50 duels or more with both characters having near identical RR's, RA skill distribution, resists, weapon spec, etc....
I agree. The best way to do this would be to copy to penddragon with another and we try to insure we have same melee resists, weapons and armors, and get the same exact passive RAs. I will try and set something like this up. Someone would like to do this with me, PM me. List the quality of your weapons, have maxed melee resists like myself and have all stats and skills maxed like myself. I have 99 qual weapons and MP bow, but I can borrow a 99qual bow and MP weapons if need be so just tell me what you have and I will get the identical hibernian version of the same.
>>They were done by TL's which do this for free and do it to attempt to better the class that he represents... Therefore the Mythic argument doesn't apply here...
I and Stardoag am doing this for free, and I know I'm not a Mythic employee. I and most of the others here are curious. Of course, everyone has a personal feeling about the issue one way or another. That's why I would like to continue these tests and am totally open to suggestions from everyone else on how to do this best. I want as much biased and variables removed as possible.
>>What you are trying to prove is incorrect, I and others know this from logs that have been performed by both TL's and gamers like you and me who made that extra effort to remove as much of the variables that skew results like this... They took hours and hours to do this... not a Thursday night where they had a few duels...
Then I will take more time and take every extra effort thay have taken to conduct more logs. For everything I overlook I believe it will be pointed out to me here and that will improve the next process.
>>Scouts with shield spec and 2-hand weapons having penalty to shield makes things ugly for a Hunter vs Scout duel... Especially if the Scout has some melee to backup the defense... 42+ shield, evade 3, 39+ weapon will put a big hurting on a Hunter...
What you say makes sense, I have no clue how Hunters do against Scouts and will not try to pretend to.
>>So even though when they get evaded against a Hunter (which hunters are lucky to get 1-2 evades per fight) or missed, then it won't hurt them as much since they swing so fast and make up the lost dmg very fast... The hunter on the other hand with a miss or evade with their SLOW 2-hander hurts them alot more since it takes them alot longer to make up the lost damage...
An evaded hunter attack has more of an effect than an evaded Ranger attack because a Ranger will be missing out on alot less possible damage than the Hunter. I agree. Also, when a Hunter hits it means alot more than when a Ranger hits for the same reason. So it is balanced out. It hurts you more to get evaded than it does a ranger, it helps you more to land a hit than it does a ranger. What you have to look at here is total damage a Hunter and Ranger can do in the exact amount of time. Then you account for defenses both have. Rangers will evade 5% more, which means after you figure out total damage both can do you should deduct 5% from the Ranger and then compare results. Maybe setting up a side test to have a Hunter beat on a target for a while, and have Ranger do the same (making everything exact and identical between the 2 as possible). If I am overlooking something here someone point it out.
>>Now when you look a the broad scope of things and compare the melee's of the archers against other classes such as assassins or hybrids... Then the disparity gets even worse... The slow 2-handed Hunter weapon and slow pet attack rate and lack of defense hurts when facing classes that have high evade or parry or block... While the Ranger can still excel against these classes because although their defense is only slightly higher, their misses/evades/blocks/parries won't hurt them as much because of the speed and huge dmg output from dual wielding fast weapons that has a dmg add...
At the moment, I am only discussing Hunter/Ranger comparrisons.
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Slitz InCognito (Galahad)
RR10 Ranger
31 Bow, 30 Stealth, 31 Pierce, 21 PF, 50 CD (+20)
PD3, AoM3, MoS3, Tough3, IP3, Purge1, MoP2, Dex3, Con2
BotS/SoM/Fools Bow/GSV/Sharkskin Gloves/Eerie Darkness Stone
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MonosyllabicGoon
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Date Posted:
7/19/03 11:55am
Subject:
RE: Logs of hunter/ranger melee/bow damage comparrison (Long)
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Did anyone notice that slitz had better buffs?
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Swiftdeathz
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Date Posted:
7/19/03 12:45pm
Subject:
RE: Logs of hunter/ranger melee/bow damage comparrison (Long)
- Date Edited:
7/19/03 12:52pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Swiftdeathz
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"Swift, this post is about Hunter/Ranger melee/bow comparisons. Continued spamming of the same personal flames over and over should go to PMs. I do not want a pen pal, neither do I want a degenerating post."
And I originally did post my opinions without flaming... Please step down from the soapbox that you think you are on...
Man you must really be deprived for attention... 
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Red_Haired_Vixen
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Date Posted:
7/19/03 1:26pm
Subject:
RE: Logs of hunter/ranger melee/bow damage comparrison (Long)
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Funny out of both these threads the most concise and accurate post came from Vistrix. What he posted is the general consensus of how things are on test and in the general community. Now if only we can get that to change.
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Astaria Dödfurstinna
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DAoC_Guy
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Date Posted:
7/19/03 2:01pm
Subject:
RE: Logs of hunter/ranger melee/bow damage comparrison (Long)
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>>And I originally did post my opinions without flaming...
I appreciate that, thanks Swift
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Slitz InCognito (Galahad)
RR10 Ranger
31 Bow, 30 Stealth, 31 Pierce, 21 PF, 50 CD (+20)
PD3, AoM3, MoS3, Tough3, IP3, Purge1, MoP2, Dex3, Con2
BotS/SoM/Fools Bow/GSV/Sharkskin Gloves/Eerie Darkness Stone
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grigolas1
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Date Posted:
7/19/03 2:01pm
Subject:
RE: Logs of hunter/ranger melee/bow damage comparrison (Long)
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I would love to get in on some duels with you guys,scout melee woot!
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Mujihi
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Date Posted:
7/19/03 2:36pm
Subject:
RE: Logs of hunter/ranger melee/bow damage comparrison (Long)
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Slitz man, lets it go.
He's obviously a complete idiot.
Seriously, a COMPLETE idiot.
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Swiftdeathz
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Date Posted:
7/19/03 3:14pm
Subject:
RE: Logs of hunter/ranger melee/bow damage comparrison (Long)
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"I appreciate that, thanks Swift"
If only that was sincere...
-----------------------------------
"Slitz man, lets it go.
He's obviously a complete idiot.
Seriously, a COMPLETE idiot."
And the troll who said he was done with the thread speaks yet again... And all board trolls everywhere roar...
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Demonio BD, Enthusiast Healer, Nukey WL, Swiftdeathz Hunter http://www.rpgfilms.net/nuke/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=search&query=Swiftdeathz also search for my Warlock vid Dwarf Hunter, Nukez Gnome Warlock - WOW (Alleria)
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Cooperhawk
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Date Posted:
7/19/03 4:07pm
Subject:
RE: Logs of hunter/ranger melee/bow damage comparrison (Long)
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I still <3 you Swift 
I would be happy to join in any duels as well.
My personal take on Hunter vs. Ranger melee is that Hunters need the equivalent of about a 10-15% adjustment.
Stardoag has passive RA's and a 10% STR Relic bonus on his side yet finds himself near equal to Slitz in melee combat. If Slitz had the passive RA's and 10% STR bonus instead of Stardoag, I do not think the fights would be close.
I personally see Scouts and Rangers as classes that are where they are meant to be. Hunters are still needing a few improvements.
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