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Logs of hunter/ranger melee/bow damage comparrison (Long)
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DAoC_Guy
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Date Posted:
7/26/03 11:49pm
Subject:
RE: Logs of hunter/ranger melee/bow damage comparrison (Long)
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Nice logs Swift!
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Slitz InCognito (Galahad)
RR10 Ranger
31 Bow, 30 Stealth, 31 Pierce, 21 PF, 50 CD (+20)
PD3, AoM3, MoS3, Tough3, IP3, Purge1, MoP2, Dex3, Con2
BotS/SoM/Fools Bow/GSV/Sharkskin Gloves/Eerie Darkness Stone
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Red_Haired_Vixen
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Date Posted:
7/27/03 12:23am
Subject:
RE: Logs of hunter/ranger melee/bow damage comparrison (Long)
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We don't need to give you logs, your not Mythic. Your opinion amounts to... well a fart in the wind.
We testers HAVE done the logs. We are in the process of proving more things to Mythic right now as well. Don't whine too much in the end when Hunter's are better melee than you, which is the way it is supposed to be.
Your assesment of Rangers are better is accurate. Now wether it is slightly or more so is debateable. THAT one fact is where the error is. It aint supposed to happen like that.
Swiftdeathz, should I put the final nail in his coffin, have the last laugh, close this chapter? Would you rather let him know, or just let him sit out there in the wind by himself?
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Astaria Dödfurstinna
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Veteran Activist for Hunters on Pendragon Test
Torrential: 'I admire you Astaria after all this time you are still hounding the Devs about
the dead horse issue of hunter balance
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DAoC_Guy
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Date Posted:
7/27/03 10:49am
Subject:
RE: Logs of hunter/ranger melee/bow damage comparrison (Long)
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>>Your assesment of Rangers are better is accurate. Now wether it is slightly or more so is debateable. THAT one fact is where the error is. It aint supposed to happen like that.
And where do you disagree with me? I have already stated you guys should be better at melee than you are, but Rangers aren't grossly superior..it is close. Which my logs do prove, and which Swift totally disagrees with.
But on a similar note, ranger archery is not much better than hunters. That should be addressed as well.
Looks like you just added weight to my arguement and are nailing the wrong coffin (poor swifty).
Seems like 95% of the people comen to swifty's defense (notice I don't need any) are mainly mids/hunters. Go figure...
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Slitz InCognito (Galahad)
RR10 Ranger
31 Bow, 30 Stealth, 31 Pierce, 21 PF, 50 CD (+20)
PD3, AoM3, MoS3, Tough3, IP3, Purge1, MoP2, Dex3, Con2
BotS/SoM/Fools Bow/GSV/Sharkskin Gloves/Eerie Darkness Stone
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Swiftdeathz
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Date Posted:
7/27/03 11:59am
Subject:
RE: Logs of hunter/ranger melee/bow damage comparrison (Long)
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"Swiftdeathz, should I put the final nail in his coffin, have the last laugh, close this chapter? Would you rather let him know, or just let him sit out there in the wind by himself?"
Go for it if you want... 
Although I rather enjoy this simple method of increasing my post count... 
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Demonio BD, Enthusiast Healer, Nukey WL, Swiftdeathz Hunter http://www.rpgfilms.net/nuke/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=search&query=Swiftdeathz also search for my Warlock vid Dwarf Hunter, Nukez Gnome Warlock - WOW (Alleria)
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DAoC_Guy
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Date Posted:
7/27/03 8:54pm
Subject:
RE: Logs of hunter/ranger melee/bow damage comparrison (Long)
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Nice logs Swift!
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Slitz InCognito (Galahad)
RR10 Ranger
31 Bow, 30 Stealth, 31 Pierce, 21 PF, 50 CD (+20)
PD3, AoM3, MoS3, Tough3, IP3, Purge1, MoP2, Dex3, Con2
BotS/SoM/Fools Bow/GSV/Sharkskin Gloves/Eerie Darkness Stone
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Swiftdeathz
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Date Posted:
7/28/03 12:16am
Subject:
RE: Logs of hunter/ranger melee/bow damage comparrison (Long)
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last
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Demonio BD, Enthusiast Healer, Nukey WL, Swiftdeathz Hunter http://www.rpgfilms.net/nuke/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=search&query=Swiftdeathz also search for my Warlock vid Dwarf Hunter, Nukez Gnome Warlock - WOW (Alleria)
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Placibo
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Date Posted:
7/28/03 11:22am
Subject:
RE: Logs of hunter/ranger melee/bow damage comparrison (Long)
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yes you need read something as a whole and not in part..
"I don't know if I am reading this right. You are saying 100 spear swings from a Hunter will yield less damage than 100 ranger swings? I must not be reading that right, because that suggests Rangers hit harder than Hunters."
+
"the miss/fumble rates for both classes should be equal but the evade rates will not.. the time in between the miss/fumble/evade is greater for hunters then rangers.. 3-4 swings a rangers does during the time a hunter takes to recover from miss/fumble/evade is more dmg then 1-2 swings from spear.. so they do not even out.. the half swing a hunter does while a ranger has miss/fumble/evade is by far less dmging to the ranger.. "
=
your answer
"That is correct. Ranger will evade 5% more attacks (damage) than the Hunter will. The hunter pet, which as swift pointed out, gives the ranger a 50% penalty for multiple opponents..therefore this actually swings in the Hunters favors. Due to the pet, Ranger will have the worse defense of the 2 in a one on one fight."
I don't beleive this is complete.. evade rates are also calculated by lvl of the target(s) attacking... if both are lvl 50 then evade rate is cut in half..
now i don't understand why rangers receive %5 less dmg just b/c they have higher evade? or am I not reading your post as a whole now..
"Now, if ranger and hunter are using both 16.5 dps weapons, the damage output from both classes remain the same regardless of which is swinging faster/slower. DPS is just that, damage per second...regardless of speeds, same DPS weapons will put out the exact same damage over time."
you are really getting hung up on this.. no one is disputing this.. a ranger swings away for 5 secs then stops. a hunter swings away for 5 sec then stops. both outputs SHOULD be similar in dmg if everyone hits and everyone is using the same dmging type of styles. if respective specs/items/styles are equal. here is the problem.. hunters styles are horrible with the exception of 39 and 44 spear styles which are conditional and not easy to pull especially in a straight up face to face duel we(hunter) will never get them off. what COULD be a worth while spec to 50 spear isn't worth is b/c the chain is a bleed then another bleed with low to hit bonus thrown in..
"Due to the multiple attacker penalties introduced with the Hunters pet, Hunter will be defensively superior to a ranger. "
another conditional dmg output that isn't always there. at least it's on a relative short timer
"Regardless of speed of a weapon, as long as the DPS and quality os the same the damage per second will be equal."
spear isn't on 2H growth rate but swings at a 2H rate. so this is exactly correct..
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Swiftdeathz
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Date Posted:
7/28/03 12:14pm
Subject:
RE: Logs of hunter/ranger melee/bow damage comparrison (Long)
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""Due to the multiple attacker penalties introduced with the Hunters pet, Hunter will be defensively superior to a ranger. "
another conditional dmg output that isn't always there. at least it's on a relative short timer"
Not only that... But only way that the pet will actually halve the defense of your opponent is if it is hitting the opponent on the frontal arc only... In RVR or even dueling strafing is common place, therefore the pet won't help much with the halving the defense if at all... 
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Demonio BD, Enthusiast Healer, Nukey WL, Swiftdeathz Hunter http://www.rpgfilms.net/nuke/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=search&query=Swiftdeathz also search for my Warlock vid Dwarf Hunter, Nukez Gnome Warlock - WOW (Alleria)
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Daemonix1
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Date Posted:
7/28/03 4:55pm
Subject:
RE: Logs of hunter/ranger melee/bow damage comparrison (Long)
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I read the thread that got locked and a lil bit of this thread and all i got to say is slitz, get over it. He won, you lost, it's done. You're trying to act like the nice guy/noble one by supposedly doing swift a favor by doing these logs for him; to prove to him that he has a chance vs you, doesn't need to kite you, and that ranger melee and hunter melee is on "par".
Swift is a RR9(close to rr10 I think) hunter that has been playing his toon from day one. He is the original smurf!  He plays his toon very well and i'm sure he knows what he can and can't do. If he had to kite to make sure he wasn't the one eating dirt so what? Lol he wasn't the one who gave up his rp's and had to type /release.
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Thank you all for the good times.
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TacoPantss
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Date Posted:
7/28/03 4:58pm
Subject:
RE: Logs of hunter/ranger melee/bow damage comparrison (Long)
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stfu in here
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DAoC_Guy
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Date Posted:
7/28/03 10:36pm
Subject:
RE: Logs of hunter/ranger melee/bow damage comparrison (Long)
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>>don't beleive this is complete.. evade rates are also calculated by lvl of the target(s) attacking... if both are lvl 50 then evade rate is cut in half..
That is correct. The hunter pet won't cut the defenses by half, but it will cut it down around 40%ish, alot more than the 5% evade bonus ranger gets for having evade 3 vs hunter evade 2. Bottom line is, hunter will still have better defenses against a ranger 1 on 1 because of pet.
>>now i don't understand why rangers receive %5 less dmg just b/c they have higher evade? or am I not reading your post as a whole now..
Ranger will evade 5% more attacks than the hunter, this taking 5% less damage (this is not counting the defensive penalties he will suffer due to hunter pet).
>>here is the problem.. hunters styles are horrible
So you agree melee, weapon for weapon, will be equal. Comparing styles could take up a whole nother post...I'm not disputing your styles may suck..same with rangers blade spec. We have one good style, spectrum blade. In pierce line, our 3rd and 4th chain off anytime opener do high damage and our diamond back (5 to 6 second stun off evade) are our 3 good styles. To see how our styles compare in the big picture of things, we need more logs/duels.
>>another conditional dmg output that isn't always there. at least it's on a relative short timer
You have to cast your pet, we have to cast our damage add. Pet is insta cast and always there unless you lose it then you have to wait 2 minutes. That is not such a big issue where your pet is not not going to be with you 95% of your one on one fights. The condition basically comes down to you hitting your insta button or not.
>>Not only that... But only way that the pet will actually halve the defense of your opponent is if it is hitting the opponent on the frontal arc only... In RVR or even dueling strafing is common place, therefore the pet won't help much with the halving the defense if at all...
If he's in your front arc, you suffer a defensive penalty due to multiple opponents. If he is not in your frontal off, the ranger will have no defense against the pet at all. Catch 22.
>>read the thread that got locked and a lil bit of this thread and all i got to say is slitz, get over it. He won, you lost, it's done.
Think you may be posting on the wrong thread. How did this thread start out to be me slamming swift for being lame? It all started with logs, Swift and not myself made it into this.
>>You're trying to act like the nice guy/noble one by supposedly doing swift a favor by doing these logs for him;
These logs weren't posted for Swift's benefit. I'm acting like a guy who is out to prove what the difference is between ranger/hunter melee/bow. Swift is worried this may pull his crutch out from under him he has always tried to lean on. And you are just another mid who is trying to help pull him out of the hot water he got himself into. He relies on realmmates, I rely on logs. Draw your own conclusions.
>>Swift is a RR9(close to rr10 I think) hunter that has been playing his toon from day one. He is the original smurf! He plays his toon very well and i'm sure he knows what he can and can't do.
Woeful is rr10+, guess tha tmeans what he has to say about his class vs another in solo has to be right...right? Exactly.
>>Lol he wasn't the one who gave up his rp's and had to type /release.
His realm mates got some RPs off me...don't know if he did though, unless he was grouped with them, because I think you actually have to fight and hit the other person to get the points.....
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Slitz InCognito (Galahad)
RR10 Ranger
31 Bow, 30 Stealth, 31 Pierce, 21 PF, 50 CD (+20)
PD3, AoM3, MoS3, Tough3, IP3, Purge1, MoP2, Dex3, Con2
BotS/SoM/Fools Bow/GSV/Sharkskin Gloves/Eerie Darkness Stone
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Swiftdeathz
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Date Posted:
7/29/03 5:51am
Subject:
RE: Logs of hunter/ranger melee/bow damage comparrison (Long)
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owned...
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Demonio BD, Enthusiast Healer, Nukey WL, Swiftdeathz Hunter http://www.rpgfilms.net/nuke/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=search&query=Swiftdeathz also search for my Warlock vid Dwarf Hunter, Nukez Gnome Warlock - WOW (Alleria)
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Swiftdeathz
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Date Posted:
7/29/03 7:47am
Subject:
RE: Logs of hunter/ranger melee/bow damage comparrison (Long)
- Date Edited:
7/29/03 8:10am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Swiftdeathz
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"If he's in your front arc, you suffer a defensive penalty due to multiple opponents. If he is not in your frontal off, the ranger will have no defense against the pet at all. Catch 22."
Yes this is true with any character. But since the pet is low blue, like you said earlier rarely hits (was your argument as to why the hunters pet doesn't trigger as many defensive procs on the opponent). I'm gonna guess that the Hunter pet hits alot when you need him to hit alot and support your arguments, but he misses alot when you need him to support another argument. Catch 22.
Weak logs Slitz.
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Demonio BD, Enthusiast Healer, Nukey WL, Swiftdeathz Hunter http://www.rpgfilms.net/nuke/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=search&query=Swiftdeathz also search for my Warlock vid Dwarf Hunter, Nukez Gnome Warlock - WOW (Alleria)
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DAoC_Guy
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Date Posted:
7/29/03 8:43pm
Subject:
RE: Logs of hunter/ranger melee/bow damage comparrison (Long)
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>>Yes this is true with any character.
Not all characters have pets.
>>But since the pet is low blue, like you said earlier rarely hits
Hits less often than a lvl 50 Hunter is what I said.
>>(was your argument as to why the hunters pet doesn't trigger as many defensive procs on the opponent).
Not it wasn't. My arguement was that Hunter+pet does not trigger as many defensvice procs as a fast hitting, duel wielding ranger. The fact that the pet does not hit as often as a lvl 50 hunter was one of many points I made.
>>I'm gonna guess that the Hunter pet hits alot when you need him to hit alot and support your arguments
You will have no defenses against the pet if he is not in your frontal arc, which is what I said and is a true fact.
>>but he misses alot when you need him to support another argument. Catch 22.
Pet misses more than the lvl 50 hunter, which was what I stated before and is still correct.
Both are true, and neither contradicts the other.
>>Weak logs Slitz.
Stronger than anything you have posted.
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Slitz InCognito (Galahad)
RR10 Ranger
31 Bow, 30 Stealth, 31 Pierce, 21 PF, 50 CD (+20)
PD3, AoM3, MoS3, Tough3, IP3, Purge1, MoP2, Dex3, Con2
BotS/SoM/Fools Bow/GSV/Sharkskin Gloves/Eerie Darkness Stone
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rjbrooksjr
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Title: The Great ilenko
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Date Posted:
7/29/03 8:58pm
Subject:
RE: Logs of hunter/ranger melee/bow damage comparrison (Long)
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i think someone needs a nap
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Goatstar posted:
Daimar posted:
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