Weapon Spec does not effect CS Caps
So I finally burned my full respec last night.
Pierce 1, CS44 = 807 PA cap (with my setup and pluses)
Pierce 39, CS44 = 807 PA cap (identical)
I then later went to Pierce 39, CS48 = 843 PA cap (which fits the 9/train forumla)
Weapon Used = Spined piercer (3.7 speed)
Modified skills are +16 to both (total of 64 CS modified -- RR6.6)
I know there are a few people with formulas floating around, and I THINK someone said weapon spec would factor in the PA cap... this is not true. So while I'm at work w/o screenshots, I still figured I'd share.
Registered User
Posts: 1186
(5/30/03 10:46 am) Reply
Re: Weapon Spec does not effect CS Caps
Ew. Yeah, I think I may have said that somewhere. Why, I have no idea; I tested that myself.
It doesn't affect CAP because your cap is...well...your cap (with that weapon). However, it WILL affect your PA actual damage if you DON'T cap since the base damage IS factored into the equation. You definitely do less base damage on average when using a lower weapon spec.
Kydric Registered User
Posts: 58
(5/30/03 11:28 am) Reply
Re: Weapon Spec does not effect CS Caps
I think that is why at low levels you can get away with you a staff for opening crit strikes, but at higher levels, you just can not do the damage because it is an untrained weapon.
watermnp Registered User
Posts: 41
(5/30/03 12:41 pm) Reply
Re: Weapon Spec does not effect CS Caps
Weapon spec doesn't matter for one handed weapons for ANY caps that aren't due to styles in that weapon spec (i.e. 1 thrust, 50 thrust, you will have the same cap with a Critical Strike style - although you'll have different caps with thrust styles).
Weapon spec does affect your cap for two handed weapons if you can spec weapon. This is because the base damage of the weapon increases with your spec (2H bonus). So for a Shadowblade using a 2H weapon, weapon spec increases their PA (and *all* styles) cap.
The formula for PA is (base damage) + 75 + (CS * 9). For a one hand weapon, base damage is a pure function of DPS and SPD - e.g. DPS * SPD * 3 * (1 + (SPD - 2) * .03). For a two handed weapon, it's the same as a one handed with the two hand bonus of 10% + .5 * spec, putting a * 1 + (.1 + (spec * .05)) onto the end of the previous formula.
"However, it WILL affect your PA actual damage if you DON'T cap since the base damage IS factored into the equation. You definitely do less base damage on average when using a lower weapon spec. "
Yes, high weapskill will increase your average damage in a given data set which will increase your style bonus due to the relation of increasing style bonus with base damage. (that sounds freaky) Potential damage remains the same, average damage does not. Balance between the two, as always, is the key to finding the spec that fits you the best.
fiveohnine Registered User
Posts: 36
(5/30/03 12:42 pm) Reply
Re: Weapon Spec does not effect CS Caps
yeah. it's like stealth speed in that your weapon spec vs level determines what % damage you reach. So as far as PA goes, it's doubtful you'll see a big difference, if any at all, in spec'ing weapon over 100% level, including bonuses. You'll have more weapskill, but PA doesn't miss anyway when you're in position.
Watermnp, a question?
"Yes, high weapskill will increase your average damage in a given data set which will increase your style bonus due to the relation of increasing style bonus with base damage. (that sounds freaky) Potential damage remains the same, average damage does not. Balance between the two, as always, is the key to finding the spec that fits you the best. "
Watermnp, can you please enlighten me as to what formula I can use to determine "unstyled base damage"
with a given weapon, and also for "potential damage", and "average damage"?
Re: Watermnp, a question?
he did post the forumula for potential base damage.
DPS * SPD * 3 * (1 + (SPD - 2) * .03)
I was doing some testing the other day on AF and damage, and determinted my Damage cap with a 3.1 delay weapon to be 155 (by testing on level 0 mobs)
Pete's formula (16.2 * 3.1 * 3 * (1+ (3.1-2)*.03) spits out the magic number of 155.4 or something. It also spit out the correct number for my bard using a 2.9 sickle.
I have to many toon's to list.
They include:
50 Champ, 50 bard
LM Armorsmith, LM Tailor
And assorted lowbies.
sentania Registered User lvl1
Posts: 2
(7/31/03 6:46 am) Reply
Re: Watermnp, a question?
also I think you made a typo on your 2h forumla pete.
I think you meant to say to append
* 1(.1*(spec*.005))
because it's 10% + .5%/spec right?
the way you have it it is 10% + 5%/spec....
I tried it your way at first and came up with some outragos numbers... a 50+11 RR4 LW user having a cap of 1289??? redid it with .05 gave a much more realistic cap of 410... giving 680 cap for annilation, which is about where I remember it being when I wacked one of my level 30 toons with it not to long back...
I have to many toon's to list.
They include:
50 Champ, 50 bard
LM Armorsmith, LM Tailor
And assorted lowbies.
watermnp Registered User
Posts: 95
(7/31/03 7:29 am) Reply
Re: Watermnp, a question?
Yah, .005 instead of .05, sorry. I should really cut and paste those things instead of typing 'em out every time. :P
acescalona - There is no "formula" for average damage yet that anyone has pinned down, it increases as your weapskill increases and decreases as your target's level/AF increases. Typically it's going to be around 40-60% for a high weapskill assassin on a heavy target.
re
---------------
"You'll have more weapskill, but PA doesn't miss anyway when you're in position. "
---------------
Interesting. I did not know that. Searching through my logs i found this:
***********
[23:28:42] You enter combat mode and target [the corrosive sludge]
[23:28:42] You prepare to perform a Perforate Artery!
[23:28:42] You miss!
[23:28:42] You are no longer hidden!
***********
So i thought, yea, PA can miss, because if i wasnt in position i would get the "style failed" message. But then i realized that maybe the "style failed" is only printed if the following unstyled attack hits. If it misses, the 'you miss' is the only message printed, despite that the style failed as well.
I looked through my logs and indeed could not find a place where i both failed a style and missed the resulting unstyled swing.
Can someone confirm that PA indeed never misses when the stealth and positional requirements are met?
Curious,
Shar.
SunRaven01 Registered User
Posts: 245
(7/31/03 10:58 am) Reply
Re: re
PA can just plain miss (and I think this is addressed in the notorious Grab Bag). It can't be bladeturned, parried, blocked, or evaded, but it can just plain miss.
It has such a phenomenally high to-hit bonus that it almost never happens, though. Like rolling a 1 on a 100 sided die.
Run around with an unenchanted wep and you'll miss
I found out the hard way, missed 2 PAs in a 48 hrs streatch (I don't play a TON so it was noticable)with a brand new 2 hander both to opponents standing still.
watermnp Registered User
Posts: 100
(8/4/03 12:39 pm) Reply
Re: re
Legna said: I thought that they had said that weaponskill raised your bottom PA cap, not your top?
Weapskill affects what percentage of your cap you will average on various targets.
Nage42 Registered User
Posts: 427
(8/4/03 8:23 pm) Reply
.
With the addition of the new lvl 51 weapons, it should be possible to put together a spreadsheet that accounts for quickness hasting and Left Axe self-hasting to determine what is the best combo for opener/follow-up while ensuring <3.0 swing (beat QC stun/mezz). All while providing decent style/base damage.
The target is to determine what is required to kill a caster with good equipment and buffs before they come out of stun. I.e., Fully buffed Celt Ment needs to drop before they can mezz you.
I'm trying to make this now.
sentania Registered User lvl2
Posts: 4
(8/5/03 5:30 am) Reply
Re: .
Pete do you have a formula or some insight on how exactly Weapon skill affect what percentage of your cap you hit?
Is it Wepskill/AF? or some variation of that; inquiring minds want to know.
If you don't know are there any tests I can perform and pass the results on to you to help you figure it out?
I have to many toon's to list.
They include:
50 Champ, 50 bard
LM Armorsmith, LM Tailor
And assorted lowbies.
watermnp Registered User
Posts: 102
(8/5/03 10:53 am) Reply
Re: .Pete do you have a formula or some insight on how exactly Weapon skill affect what percentage of your cap you hit?
It's assumed to be something along the lines of Weapskill vs AF+ABS+level difference. I don't have a pretty "1000 weapskill = 60% average on a 540AF/27%ABS target" type of formula though.
I'm working on gathering some data like that to set up a matrix for comparison, but time time time, I have so many other things on my plate at times.
I should really cut and paste those things instead of typing 'em out every time. :P
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