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Logs of hunter/ranger melee/bow damage comparrison (Long)
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Swiftdeathz
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Date Posted:
7/18/03 1:29pm
Subject:
RE: Logs of hunter/ranger melee/bow damage comparrison (Long)
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" Cant run from teh logs Swifty  "
Don't need to run from pointless logs that don't prove anything other than Slitz vs Stardoag is kinda on par...
Also the logs won't come at me fully buff-botted with AP3 and IP and also won't come whine on here after they get owned...
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Demonio BD, Enthusiast Healer, Nukey WL, Swiftdeathz Hunter http://www.rpgfilms.net/nuke/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=search&query=Swiftdeathz also search for my Warlock vid Dwarf Hunter, Nukez Gnome Warlock - WOW (Alleria)
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Metus_ID
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Date Posted:
7/18/03 1:32pm
Subject:
RE: Logs of hunter/ranger melee/bow damage comparrison (Long)
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I know, i thought i would take a jab at you QQ
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Swiftdeathz
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Date Posted:
7/18/03 1:38pm
Subject:
RE: Logs of hunter/ranger melee/bow damage comparrison (Long)
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stop the h8 
spread da luv 
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Demonio BD, Enthusiast Healer, Nukey WL, Swiftdeathz Hunter http://www.rpgfilms.net/nuke/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=search&query=Swiftdeathz also search for my Warlock vid Dwarf Hunter, Nukez Gnome Warlock - WOW (Alleria)
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Red_Haired_Vixen
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Date Posted:
7/18/03 1:38pm
Subject:
RE: Logs of hunter/ranger melee/bow damage comparrison (Long)
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Nice logs .... HAR HAR HAR.
If I turned in crap like that on the test boards I'd be laughed out of the service.
Of note:
You don't account for melee bonus in your bow shots.
You don't account for arrow type in your bow shots.
and so forth.
Bow is the one thing with fewest variables that you can not spin. 5.5 vs 5.0 wins period. It is a mathmatical function. For you to conclude they are closer to par shows your incompetance.
Facts are Rangers are supposed to own us in archery, which they do.
Hunters are supposed to handily kill rangers and scouts in melee, which they don't.
WAKE UP.
Just stop your crusade from trying to get the facts on par with where they should be. Under surveillance of a trained eye (especially Mythics) your conclusions don't hold up.
P.S.
Wyrd I am also disapointed with you complimenting such rubish. You always demand such high caliber stuff on test.
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Astaria Dödfurstinna
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Veteran Activist for Hunters on Pendragon Test
Torrential: 'I admire you Astaria after all this time you are still hounding the Devs about
the dead horse issue of hunter balance
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Swiftdeathz
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Date Posted:
7/18/03 1:40pm
Subject:
RE: Logs of hunter/ranger melee/bow damage comparrison (Long)
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Astaria any progress yet for me? 
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Demonio BD, Enthusiast Healer, Nukey WL, Swiftdeathz Hunter http://www.rpgfilms.net/nuke/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=search&query=Swiftdeathz also search for my Warlock vid Dwarf Hunter, Nukez Gnome Warlock - WOW (Alleria)
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raeze
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Date Posted:
7/18/03 1:45pm
Subject:
RE: Logs of hunter/ranger melee/bow damage comparrison (Long)
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Be fair to him guys.
He DID account for those factors in the posts immediatly following his log post.
He tried to mention all the possible variables.
And yes, he did NOT use AP3/IP in his fights and still won more than half of them, even though he has the passives of a RR3 ranger.
Like I said, Hunters do have it worse off in melee than rangers. If Slitz had been all or mostly passives, the fights would of been more skewed.
But, give the guy credit. He's trying to make an objective approach to the whole thing, and it might help out hunters in the long run. Help run more tests, the flaming is getting nowhere. I know Slitz started it with bashing Swifty but let it go- more less  .
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Raeze • Undead Mage • Liutenant General <Avant Garde> of The Horde/Mannoroth (WoW) ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Raeze • Prime Prestidigitist • Tiarna • Convoker • <Viaticus> of Hibernia/Galahad (DAoC)
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Wulff_Grymmskaft
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Date Posted:
7/18/03 1:50pm
Subject:
RE: Logs of hunter/ranger melee/bow damage comparrison (Long)
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"==========================
Rangers can do more to imporve there melee than hunters due to the 2 melee lines they have.
==========================
Double edged sword though. They can improve their melee more with the 2 lines to spec in, BUT that also means--- 2 lines to spec in. Less points for bow, stealth and/or pathfinding. Also means more +skills to add to SCing (not a huge deal but a pain in the ass nonetheless).
*******************
Big misconception.
If a hunter/ranger put the same points in bow/stealth. And then spread the remaining the ranger gets more bang for their buck.
Diminishing returns
What are Slitz's spec and Swifts?
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Shewulff:
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MonosyllabicGoon
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Date Posted:
7/18/03 1:55pm
Subject:
RE: Logs of hunter/ranger melee/bow damage comparrison (Long)
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http://www.student.smsu.edu/s/san232s/hardfunnypics/beatingdeadhorse.jpg
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Metus_ID
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Date Posted:
7/18/03 1:59pm
Subject:
RE: Logs of hunter/ranger melee/bow damage comparrison (Long)
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^
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wyrd77
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Date Posted:
7/18/03 2:11pm
Subject:
RE: Logs of hunter/ranger melee/bow damage comparrison (Long)
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1) 5.0 Spd bow vs 5.5 Spd bow... yes, the 5.5 Spd bow does have higher DPS... its somewhere on the range of 1-3% more damage. The formula is on the tester boards [Styles and Abilities], which I cant get to from work (plus I dunno if I can repeat the info here). You can go calculate the difference. Its not that big a deal to be honest.
2) Without hitting the stun, the Ranger lost 100%. Hitting the stun, the Ranger lost 100%. That tells me that the 5 second stun makes the difference in the fight, not the melee abilities of the classes. Of course that has been a gripe for a long time for the Hunter class.
[Note: I still think all classes should have some form of stun and that all stuns should be balanced via difficulty to perform rather than by level of style]
3) Just because Hunters are supposed to be better at melee does not mean they should win 80% or more of their fights in melee vs a Ranger. It should be closer to 60%.
4) Tactics Tactics Tactics. Youre just going toe to toe with eachother here. The utility of that pet (i.e. kiting) gives the Hunter a distinct advantage in the hands of a skilled player.
5) This is a 1on1 situation. Honestly, Id think 2 Hunters working together would be more powerful than 2 Rangers working together since then the Hunters could make use of some beefy positional melee styles and double up with the pets. There is really no reason to run solo in the game.
Bottom line...
Archer vs Archer in RvR:
Whoever spots the enemy first wins. Thats just how it goes. All 3 have their quirks that allow them to be powerful (Slam, Pet, AP)
The grass is always greener...
Wyrd
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Fotonx
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Date Posted:
7/18/03 2:13pm
Subject:
RE: Logs of hunter/ranger melee/bow damage comparrison (Long)
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I believe I said the same thing in another thread. Its usually about who sees who first. Sure, luck or a bad decision can lose a fight even if you see the other archer first but for the most part the above still rings true.
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Swiftdeathz
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Date Posted:
7/18/03 2:17pm
Subject:
RE: Logs of hunter/ranger melee/bow damage comparrison (Long)
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"4) Tactics Tactics Tactics. Youre just going toe to toe with eachother here. The utility of that pet (i.e. kiting) gives the Hunter a distinct advantage in the hands of a skilled player."
Last I checked... The tactics tactics tactics of using a pet ala KITING is not melee... This i kiting like a shammy or any other dot/pet class... This is not being proficient in melee... 
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"What are Slitz's spec and Swifts?"
The logs were Slitz vs Stardoag... not me...
Either way Slitz spec is in his sig and is:
35 Bow, 35 Stealth, 39 Pierce, 23 CD, 36 PF
Stardoag's is similair to me I believe... mine is:
41 Bow, 32 Stealth, 44 Spear, 34 BC
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Demonio BD, Enthusiast Healer, Nukey WL, Swiftdeathz Hunter http://www.rpgfilms.net/nuke/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=search&query=Swiftdeathz also search for my Warlock vid Dwarf Hunter, Nukez Gnome Warlock - WOW (Alleria)
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raeze
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Date Posted:
7/18/03 2:26pm
Subject:
RE: Logs of hunter/ranger melee/bow damage comparrison (Long)
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==================================
Big misconception.
If a hunter/ranger put the same points in bow/stealth. And then spread the remaining the ranger gets more bang for their buck.
Diminishing returns
What are Slitz's spec and Swifts?
==================================
Not neccassarily.
One of the more popular hunter specs is something like,
35stealth
40bow
44spear
32BC
Whereas a 'equivalent' type ranger would be,
35stealth
40bow
44weapon
27path
17cd
The problem is, to have the same weaponskill (well not exactly the same but equal weapon spec) a ranger gives up alot to spec 44 weapon. 17 CD isn't much, and only affords a 8.5% more chance to dual-wield for a total of 33.5% chance to dual wield. The other 72.5% of the time he's hitting with a one hander. Generally 20-25 CD is neccassary (minimum) for a melee-specced ranger/NS.
They can raise their CD by dropping weapon to 39, which most rangers have (and the penalties of lower weapon skill and damage) or Pathfinding (and the penalties of lower Damage add/buffs)
There is a excellent guide on Ranger speccing here:
http://www.critshot.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=4461
Good read, you'll see what I mean.
Not saying your flat out wrong, and you ARE right about diminishing returns being the spawn of satan and even speccing is better than straight speccing. BUT with weapon spec it's a little different. You *must* take your weapon high if you want to be effective (and plan to melee alot, if your going sniper spec it's a different story) and CD is also needed to be effective. So it's not generally a 'better' thing that rangers have to spec 2 lines to be better melee-wise.
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Raeze • Undead Mage • Liutenant General <Avant Garde> of The Horde/Mannoroth (WoW) ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Raeze • Prime Prestidigitist • Tiarna • Convoker • <Viaticus> of Hibernia/Galahad (DAoC)
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wyrd77
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Date Posted:
7/18/03 2:34pm
Subject:
RE: Logs of hunter/ranger melee/bow damage comparrison (Long)
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Swift,
You probably know best that the person who wins the fight is the one standing at the end. Sometimes it requires you to use more than just one tool (e.g. melee + kiting) to win.
Now, as for the melee comparison... wow, yeah, Slitz SHOULD be winning the duels. He has a snotload of points into melee.
Wyrd
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StarDoag
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Date Posted:
7/18/03 3:07pm
Subject:
RE: Logs of hunter/ranger melee/bow damage comparrison (Long)
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StarDoags spec: 
45 spear, 40 bow, 34 bc, 32 stealth.
I didn't want to copy Swifts spec exactly.
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