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Logs of hunter/ranger melee/bow damage comparrison (Long)
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DAoC_Guy
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Date Posted:
7/18/03 8:41am
Subject:
RE: Logs of hunter/ranger melee/bow damage comparrison (Long)
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>>Slitz of course didn't post the duels with another Hunter which he had where he owned him 80% of the time according to Star... which would throw his 'biased' comparison out of whack...
The reason I never posted those logs with Fieree were because I backed off each time before he died, and Stardoag told me after the fights Fieree was using slash spear by mistake in our fights.
I do believe that the hunter/ranger melee/bow is out of whack as mythic would have you believe. Hunter should be quite better than Ranger melee, but instead it is either slightly better, on par, or slightly worse. Ranger bow should be quite a bit better than Hunters, but instead is very near equal.
And I will be the first to say, these logs do not prove one being better/worse than the others but it does show beyond a reasonable doubt that neither a ranger or hunter is far superior over the other in either bow or melee in my opinion.
Hopefully this will help eliviate the myth many have believed that one class is dominate over the other in either of those regards.
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Slitz InCognito (Galahad)
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31 Bow, 30 Stealth, 31 Pierce, 21 PF, 50 CD (+20)
PD3, AoM3, MoS3, Tough3, IP3, Purge1, MoP2, Dex3, Con2
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DAoC_Guy
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Date Posted:
7/18/03 8:49am
Subject:
RE: Logs of hunter/ranger melee/bow damage comparrison (Long)
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>>In summation... This just shows in Slitz's opinion and some others who agree with him, that Slitz's melee is on par with Stardoag's...
This post was about logs, against similar RR hunter/ranger. I will own a low rr hunter, and stardoag will own a low rr ranger.
Perhaps at lower rr's there is a bigger difference between a ranger/hunter than there is at higher rr's. But at higher RRs, there is not this gross dominates of one over the other though.
Also, I'm going to run some more duels with mang and possibly Fotonx soon and will post those results as well.
Others setting up duels on Pendragon is a great idea, looking forward to seeing if there is much difference between the 2 classes at lower rr's.
All in all, I think this will turn out to be a positive development and enlightening experience.
People should not believe my claims just because of how many RPs I have, and people should take any claims I have about how well a Ranger does in a grouping situation as being very inexperienced claims since I have little experience in that department. 90% of my RPs come from solo, so that is my area of expertise. Someone with 400k RPs that all come from grouping will have tons more knowledge in that department. This is just common sense.
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Slitz InCognito (Galahad)
RR10 Ranger
31 Bow, 30 Stealth, 31 Pierce, 21 PF, 50 CD (+20)
PD3, AoM3, MoS3, Tough3, IP3, Purge1, MoP2, Dex3, Con2
BotS/SoM/Fools Bow/GSV/Sharkskin Gloves/Eerie Darkness Stone
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VaenMcPaen
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Date Posted:
7/18/03 8:51am
Subject:
RE: Logs of hunter/ranger melee/bow damage comparrison (Long)
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Well nice job on taking the time to conduct these logs. As far as i can see, RvH is pretty close. but like many have stated, fighitng RvH is not researching the whole field..just a small portion of there skill as melee. Great job on the logs thoe.
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Carion1
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Date Posted:
7/18/03 9:08am
Subject:
RE: Logs of hunter/ranger melee/bow damage comparrison (Long)
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Slitz what your not seeing is...compared against each other they seem quite equal but against a higher defense class (rangers/hunters have low defense) your melee will ot perform all day everyday. With you fighting a higher evade class your melee will be stronger simply because the misses don't hurt as much. You swing quite a bit faster. Two misses against an ns and a hunter is dead. Second...against a shield user you will be more effective because of cd where the hunter again is at a disadvantage because of the slow swings and being blocked quite a bit (low weapon skill which all rogues suffer from).
To be fair to Swift...the fight that started this debate he was not buffed and assumed you were. You would have beat the crap out of him in that situation if he had gone straight up melee.
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Carion - Eclipse - Galahad
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wyrd77
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Date Posted:
7/18/03 9:44am
Subject:
RE: Logs of hunter/ranger melee/bow damage comparrison (Long)
- Date Edited:
7/18/03 9:46am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
wyrd77
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1) Dont forget the Hunter's Pet, thats a HUGE difference, even if its just reducing your opponent's defenses.
2) For the base math in a nice spreadsheet... look at my sig.
DW > 2H; However, Rangers do not have enough spec points to spec in everything, thus SOMETHING suffers while Hunters and Scouts can generally keep all their specs decently high.
Honestly... all 3 archer classes are pretty darned balanced with eachother.
Edit: Oh... great logs!
Wyrd
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Swiftdeathz
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Date Posted:
7/18/03 10:20am
Subject:
RE: Logs of hunter/ranger melee/bow damage comparrison (Long)
- Date Edited:
7/18/03 10:35am (2 edits total)
Edited By:
Swiftdeathz
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" 1) Dont forget the Hunter's Pet, thats a HUGE difference, even if its just reducing your opponent's defenses."
This is a HUGE misconception by people that haven't thoroughly tested it or play the class...
I've run tests and the pet does absolutely NOTHING if it does not hit your opponent from the front... Meaning if your opponent strafes around then the pet does NOT help with halving the opponents defense... I brought this to the attention of some testers and they didn't know as well...  Oh let's not forget how slow the pets hit (almost as the same rate or slower than our spears since they don't have qui buff...)
Tests went like this... I'd have regular duel with an SB where he would strafe and I would, I would get evaded 5+ times a fight...
When I dueled the SB and positoned myself so that the pet would be hitting the SB's frontal arc and told the SB to please not move around, the SB would evade maybe 1 or 2 times a fight...
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Demonio BD, Enthusiast Healer, Nukey WL, Swiftdeathz Hunter http://www.rpgfilms.net/nuke/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=search&query=Swiftdeathz also search for my Warlock vid Dwarf Hunter, Nukez Gnome Warlock - WOW (Alleria)
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Virtual_Xenocide
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Date Posted:
7/18/03 10:27am
Subject:
RE: Logs of hunter/ranger melee/bow damage comparrison (Long)
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spears = hard hitting. ouchie 
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Swiftdeathz
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Date Posted:
7/18/03 10:37am
Subject:
RE: Logs of hunter/ranger melee/bow damage comparrison (Long)
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" spears = hard hitting. ouchie "
Yep I love my spear for hitting casters and support classes...
It's yummy when fully buffed getting a 600+ hit on a caster with weak resists...
But when going 1vs1 with any other class aside from Scouts and maybe low RR Rangers... Hunters get owned hard... Hence the need to kite... 
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Demonio BD, Enthusiast Healer, Nukey WL, Swiftdeathz Hunter http://www.rpgfilms.net/nuke/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=search&query=Swiftdeathz also search for my Warlock vid Dwarf Hunter, Nukez Gnome Warlock - WOW (Alleria)
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Placibo
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Date Posted:
7/18/03 10:40am
Subject:
RE: Logs of hunter/ranger melee/bow damage comparrison (Long)
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"Rangers do not have enough spec points to spec in everything, thus SOMETHING suffers while Hunters and Scouts can generally keep all their specs decently high"
huh wha? you do know hunter don't auto train anything while the other 2 classes auto train in bow.. and all 3 classes get 2.0 spec points
Hunter - b/c stealth bow weapon
Rangers - path weapon cd stealth
Scouts - weapon sheild stealth bow
hunters have to train in bow from the start.. rangers/scouts do not.. so who suffers?
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Mang-Mang
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Date Posted:
7/18/03 10:44am
Subject:
RE: Logs of hunter/ranger melee/bow damage comparrison (Long)
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Even if hunters recieved 2.2 spec points like ns and sb's, a melee spec'd ranger would still give the hunter a run for its money and that is the sad thing.
Rangers can do more to imporve there melee than hunters due to the 2 melee lines they have.
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Mang Mang <Ook Ook> Galahad Hunter
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raeze
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Date Posted:
7/18/03 11:15am
Subject:
RE: Logs of hunter/ranger melee/bow damage comparrison (Long)
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Erm Placibo.. You forgot to put bow in for ranger.
Rangers have 5 lines to spec (bow, weapon, CD, stealth, PF)
Scouts 4 lines (bow, weapon, stealth, shield)
Hunters 4 lines (bow, spear, stealth, BC)
And auto training isn't really a big issue with hunters, very few rangers auto their bow (that I know of) and i'm sure the same holds for scouts.
==========================
Rangers can do more to imporve there melee than hunters due to the 2 melee lines they have.
==========================
Double edged sword though. They can improve their melee more with the 2 lines to spec in, BUT that also means--- 2 lines to spec in. Less points for bow, stealth and/or pathfinding. Also means more +skills to add to SCing (not a huge deal but a pain in the ass nonetheless).
To be fair, i've always found hunters to be a tad under par with scouts/rangers (both ranged and melee).
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Raeze • Undead Mage • Liutenant General <Avant Garde> of The Horde/Mannoroth (WoW) ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Raeze • Prime Prestidigitist • Tiarna • Convoker • <Viaticus> of Hibernia/Galahad (DAoC)
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artemis_daoc
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Date Posted:
7/18/03 11:16am
Subject:
RE: Logs of hunter/ranger melee/bow damage comparrison (Long)
- Date Edited:
7/18/03 11:18am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
artemis_daoc
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I'd love to see a log with the hunter pet assisting in melee. I don't think a ranger would stand a chance of winning with all other things being equal.
It's clear melee is pretty close between ranger/hunter if you don't include the pet.
And those who claim a pet does absolutely nothing are ignorant or stupid. Just talk to larsan on how important his pet is. Or the number of people (tanks) he manages to kill without even needing to use his bow, just his pet and meleeing.
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StarDoag
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Date Posted:
7/18/03 12:44pm
Subject:
RE: Logs of hunter/ranger melee/bow damage comparrison (Long)
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I had my pet up for all the fights.
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Placibo
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Date Posted:
7/18/03 12:45pm
Subject:
RE: Logs of hunter/ranger melee/bow damage comparrison (Long)
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i agree with the pet being very usefull when we get the drop on someone.. very useful tactic can be used to drop non sheild spec'd tanks with it.. but ver evade 7 it doesn't help..
and yes thank you for adding bow to rangers for me i left it out..
why people wouldn't auto train bow is beyond me for those first lvls to save spec points.. play your toon for 50 not bg imop
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Metus_ID
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Date Posted:
7/18/03 1:03pm
Subject:
RE: Logs of hunter/ranger melee/bow damage comparrison (Long)
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Cant run from teh logs Swifty 
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