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Official Thread: Rapid Fire
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-Retaliation-
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Jan '02
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Date Posted:
6/5/03 11:38am
Subject:
RE: Official Thread: Rapid Fire
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haha you act like end pots cost alot of money, and like end is a penalty, ok lets trade end usage for a dps drop off penalty. you woulndt do that, because then it woulndt be overpowered, which it is. But thats even saying there is an end penalty, which by that log file, its obvious there isnt.
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Lord_Elodan
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Mar '03
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Date Posted:
6/5/03 11:38am
Subject:
RE: Official Thread: Rapid Fire
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Um,
It's doing 100% of your damage cut in half.
It's not doing more than that.
Ei if you hit for 400 on a normal shot you could crit for 400.
If you rf and hit for 200 you can crit for 200. NOT 400.
So even with the crits, the damage is scaled.
Now it maybe that with a large number of shots and higher RA's you have a large chance to crit on the same target. But your not going to hit for 200 and crit for 400.
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Oblivionpvp
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Date Posted:
6/5/03 11:40am
Subject:
RE: Official Thread: Rapid Fire
- Date Edited:
6/5/03 11:42am (2 edits total)
Edited By:
Oblivionpvp
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"Um,
It's doing 100% of your damage cut in half.
It's not doing more than that.
Ei if you hit for 400 on a normal shot you could crit for 400.
If you rf and hit for 200 you can crit for 200. NOT 400"
What is 100% time 200? TWO HUNDRED.
Lord elodan observe upwards and perhaps back a page if you don't believe it. Also here is a cutout again for you buddy.
[13:28:14] You shoot the fuath with your bow and hit for 109 (-19) damage!
[13:28:14] You critical hit for an additional 107 damage!
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Boridi
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Date Posted:
6/5/03 11:45am
Subject:
RE: Official Thread: Rapid Fire
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if you would have read my post you woulnt be asking silly questions and sounding uninformed. But i'll copy and past since you're having troubles.
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Lord_Elodan
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Date Posted:
6/5/03 11:45am
Subject:
RE: Official Thread: Rapid Fire
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Yes the end cost is higher.
but the higher you spec in bows, the less you notice. Spec to 45 bows for the least amonth of endurance hit.
As for the End Pots costing more. It's the fact that I would have to use one to keep using my bow, not that I need to take out loan to buy them. No end pots and arrows don't cost tons of money. But compared to a mage that doesn't have any cost?
or how about a mage that uses a 94% level 1 staff with trifocus. Where a ranger has to buy a 99% lvl 51 bow to compete. There are costs involved for archers/rangers whether you want to see them or not.
Now you can argue that a mage is going to buy a lvl 51 stave. That's true, but not because they have to. It's because they want to tweak their sc'ing suit.
Anyway, more to the point. I haven't seen the dps higher on RF than normal shot.
Now I do see it interupting casters, which have a sucky interupt system anyway.
Wardens, pbt's are going to feel the bite. However a single ranger or a group of rangers is "not" going to kill your entire group. They may kill your healers. They may kill your mages. But you will kill some or all of them.
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-Retaliation-
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Date Posted:
6/5/03 11:47am
Subject:
RE: Official Thread: Rapid Fire
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besides, you can crit 100% on mobs, 50% on players, at least as a caster thats the rule.
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O.G. Ice Wizzy Pimp - Gawaine and last non-FOTM Mercenary .,|,, ,,|,. http://www.mugombie.com/oracle/
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Lord_Elodan
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Date Posted:
6/5/03 11:49am
Subject:
RE: Official Thread: Rapid Fire
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Lord elodan observe upwards and perhaps back a page if you don't believe it. Also here is a cutout again for you buddy.
[13:28:14] You shoot the fuath with your bow and hit for 109 (-19) damage!
[13:28:14] You critical hit for an additional 107 damage!
Um, you do know how damage works right?
He actually hit for 109+19. 19 of it was resisted. The lil -19 is there to say. Hey you might want to change arrow type.
Now if you do your math.. I know you can.
109+19 = 128....
Now for the Crit part.
you do an additional 107 damage...
Oh look. I really had the potential to do 128 instead of 107.
Yup still not more than 100% damage.
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-Retaliation-
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Date Posted:
6/5/03 11:51am
Subject:
RE: Official Thread: Rapid Fire
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HAHAHAHAHAH omfg
please do not even TRY to equate MANA usage and regeneration TO END usage and regeneration, you'll just look like a fool to everyone.
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O.G. Ice Wizzy Pimp - Gawaine and last non-FOTM Mercenary .,|,, ,,|,. http://www.mugombie.com/oracle/
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-Retaliation-
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Date Posted:
6/5/03 11:53am
Subject:
RE: Official Thread: Rapid Fire
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"Anyway, more to the point. I haven't seen the dps higher on RF than normal shot."
Right, there should be a penalty associated with the priviledge to shoot faster. There should be a decrease in DPS or increase in misses and fumbles.
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O.G. Ice Wizzy Pimp - Gawaine and last non-FOTM Mercenary .,|,, ,,|,. http://www.mugombie.com/oracle/
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Lord_Elodan
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Date Posted:
6/5/03 11:56am
Subject:
RE: Official Thread: Rapid Fire
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Um, I'm not comparing it to mana usage. I just said there was a cost.
It's the same with that big burly shield hero hoping he had enough End to shield slam you.
As for mana regen. Yup it sucks. Seren2 + crack 5. Still slow. No arguement there.
I merely stated there was a cost.
Maybe mages should have to buy regs via UO style. (shrugs)
Just stating there are down sides to RF and it's not the godlike I win button people seem to think it is.
Now the "only" part that sucks is mages lack of a decent disrupt system. A warm gentle breese blows by and you get disrupted. 1 arrow ever 1.5 seconds just compounds the problem. Again. Not a archer/RF problem. It's the interupt system problem.
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-Retaliation-
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Date Posted:
6/5/03 12:06pm
Subject:
RE: Official Thread: Rapid Fire
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i dont mind the interrupts at all, its just the fact there is no penalty for the priviledge of shooting faster. Theres no reason to want to shoot at regular speed over rapid fire.
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Carlyn_Percival
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Date Posted:
6/5/03 12:07pm
Subject:
RE: Official Thread: Rapid Fire
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Zerone posted something a few pages back that caught my eye. He posted that on normal shots, archers are regulated with a hard cap value to hit. So, even though an archer could hit a target harder, they are hard capped and limited by the amount of damage they deal out.
Now, if the same archer uses RF, it could be that the 50% damage is calculated from the total damage done but not the hard cap.
As an example, I actually did a test last night on some grey con mobs. With normal shot I would hit the grey con mob for 525. However, using RF I was hitting the the same grey con mob for around 300-315. Yes, the damage varied on the RF shots.
I did 5 shots normal and 5 shots using RF. No logs. And I know, it was only grey con mobs and not the best to test things on. Even with that said, this could be why some logs are showing an increase in DPS. It could be that the 50% damage is actually calculated off of the total damage vs the hard cap.
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tyrfiel
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Date Posted:
6/5/03 12:24pm
Subject:
RE: Official Thread: Rapid Fire
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Wow, so many silly things in one post. This will be fun.
"As it is, there is no need for any archer to ever fire a shot again that is not at this chaingun-like rapid speed."
RF costs more endurance.
"So effectivly the personal blade turn isnt absorbing 292 damage of what it normally would have against the same enemy."
Implying that bladeturn should always deflect archer attacks 100%. And this is fair how?
"Another thing, once the arrow lets loose from the bow, its going to hit no matter what"
Misses. Fumbles. Blocks. Evades. Engage. The list is probably longer. You know that.
"and lets not forget about the damage buff bonuses they would be getting. For example, in 3.5 secs they would get say one dmg buff bonus of 25. But now, in 3 seconds, 2 seperate shots, they get a dmg bonus of 50 (2x25). It has doubled the bonus of a dmg add in .5 seconds less time. ...no archer worth their salt now would even think of waiting a full draw time ... because they would be losing out on a huge damage bonus."
You do not understand how a damage add works. A damage add is measured in Damage Per Second. That is, the less time between attacks, the less damage my DPS does. You're magically doubling our damage adds in your example.
"well there should be a penalty that you sacrifice, not a BONUS to using it."
There is no bonus. See above.
"1) If you want to shoot twice as fast? well your dps drops significantly. This is the only way rapid fire should be able to stay in the game."
It does. It halves your DPS by firing twice as fast. It also halves your damage add damage because...why? Because you're firing twice as fast. Again, you do not understand damage adds OR how DPS works.
"2) You shoot twice as fast? You miss twice as much. This is the more logical answer. I mean, what is rapid fire? Its cutting the archers AIMING time in half, so woulndt logic dictate that they would miss CONSIDERABLY more? Yes i think so."
No, I think you got killed by an archer and you're mad.
"AND, if archers were so gimp, how come theres so many of them and everyone has one as an alt? Cabalists used to be gimp, thats why there was none of them. Blademasters ARE gimp, hardly anyone knows one. Same can be said for earth theurgists now and cave shamans, HAH, but definitly not archers. "
Yay! Circumstantial evidence! Lots of people make archers not to own other classes but because they like the idea of archers.
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vn_-quercus-
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Oct '01
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Date Posted:
6/5/03 12:29pm
Subject:
RE: Official Thread: Rapid Fire
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"[13:28:14] You shoot the fuath with your bow and hit for 109 (-19) damage!
[13:28:14] You critical hit for an additional 107 damage! "
Anyone can get 100% crits on mobs.
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animalbard
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Date Posted:
6/5/03 12:35pm
Subject:
RE: Official Thread: Rapid Fire
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"Yay! Circumstantial evidence! Lots of people make archers not to own other classes but because they like the idea of archers."
my first love was my bard ... always liked playing them in every game that offered them. Now that mythic destroyed the fun factor of playing a bard, i switched to my second love - RANGERS! I did this when they were gimped beyond gimped. But they were still fun to play 
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