| Author |
Topic:
Official Thread: Rapid Fire
|
Shriknah
collection | wishlist
Posts:
40
Registered:
Apr '03
|
Date Posted:
6/5/03 6:36am
Subject:
RE: Official Thread: Rapid Fire
- Date Edited:
6/5/03 6:46am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Shriknah
|
Kreon, that sample has 32 RF shots for DPS value comparison.
Just for the heck of it, I just flipped a quarter 32 times. 21 tails, 11 heads. 65% Tails. 15% off the statistical average. In other words, a test with that sample size means jack all.
EDIT: Furthermore, the baseline (normal shots) test only has 18 shots total fired. With almost half the shots fired, you can expect around twice the error. Or around 25%, from my coin flipping experiment. Now, add 25 and 15 and you get 40% possible error, which is more than the supposed added DPS on the test results. Like I said, that test is meaningless.
-----signature-----
Cry more, IBTL, use tactics, ect...
|
Locked Topic |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
Wizdom6
collection | wishlist
Posts:
100
Registered:
Jun '03
|
Date Posted:
6/5/03 6:39am
Subject:
RE: Official Thread: Rapid Fire
|
Deniz
I agree with you up to a point. Then again TS is on a 30 minute timer.
I dont think its too much to let archers have a chance every 30 minutes of turning the tables.
-----signature-----
Fayde - 50 Scout Galahad (Sold)
Colbey - 50 Paladin Galahad (Sold)
Ryst - 50 Paladin Galahad (sold)
Rystlwulf - 47 Scout Galahad Deleted
Chyg 48 Necro - Mordred Kakaroto - 50 Warden Mordred
|
Locked Topic |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
Kahala
collection | wishlist
Posts:
1,332
Registered:
Feb '02
|
Date Posted:
6/5/03 6:44am
Subject:
RE: Official Thread: Rapid Fire
|
yes, but it wasnt my test, if it was, it woul dhave a larger sample, but all i saw in the first 4 pages of this thread was ppl asking for logs, well, i found logs that showed its a major increase in dps, which it is.
ill try to get a ranger to duel my hero tonight just to show the fact that it is
-kreon
-----signature-----
Daoc (retired) Kreon / Laiselle Igraine, Gawaine, Merlin, Lance Proud Member of <Beyond Death> Proud Member of <Apollyon>
|
Locked Topic |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
Deniz666
collection | wishlist
Posts:
871
Registered:
Jan '02
|
Date Posted:
6/5/03 6:47am
Subject:
RE: Official Thread: Rapid Fire
|
Wizdon,
It's not the matter if there is a timer or not. Either 30 mins or 10 hours, combination of TS ad RF gives you a power that no other class in the game has, which is "I Win Button"...
As I said i am completely against any nerf to RF. Now if you get caught alone by an archer you are dead and thats the way it should be
-----signature-----
Bisq 9L3 Infiltrator of Percival <sold>
Ostery 5L3 Infiltrator of Gareth <inactive>
Osttery 3L8 Reaver of Gareth <inactive>
5 years of DAOC and going strong!
|
Locked Topic |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
tyrfiel
collection | wishlist
Posts:
3,951
Registered:
Jul '02
|
Date Posted:
6/5/03 6:47am
Subject:
RE: Official Thread: Rapid Fire
|
"Not sure if anyone has noticed these, but here are some logs showing an approximately %25 increase in DPS with RF. ... http://vnboards.ign.com/message.asp?topic=51309593&replies=20 "
In those calculations, they consider misses to be the damage mean (the midpoint between the max and the min damage). This skews the results.
For example: 100, 50, 75, miss, miss, 100. If you count misses as zero damage, the average is 54.2. If you count misses as the mean (1/2 way between 50 and 100 = 75), the average is 66.7.
You can prove anything you like if you use bad math.
-----signature-----
Formerly: DAOC (Lamorak, Merlin, Gareth), WoW (Paladin - Turalyon) Currently: Progressquest (Level 47 Demicanadian Battle-Felon) The Looking-Glass DAOC UI: http://camelotvault.ign.com/View.php?view=UI.Detail&id=25
|
Locked Topic |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
Shriknah
collection | wishlist
Posts:
40
Registered:
Apr '03
|
Date Posted:
6/5/03 6:49am
Subject:
RE: Official Thread: Rapid Fire
|
" i found logs that showed its a major increase in dps, which it is."
Correction, you found logs that show absolutely nothing.
Look, I am not trying to be hard headed here. Like I said earlier in the thread, if RF is adding DPS that needs to be fixed pronto, as it would be totally unintended. It would be a bug, plain and simple. But I won't endorse any kind of an adjustment until someone can actually prove it is needed, and so far no one has come close.
-----signature-----
Cry more, IBTL, use tactics, ect...
|
Locked Topic |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
Anonymous114
collection | wishlist
Posts:
93
Registered:
Apr '03
|
Date Posted:
6/5/03 6:50am
Subject:
RE: Official Thread: Rapid Fire
|
i posted this in 2 other threads, please test this and make logs, i dont have the time:
many think that rapid fire increases damage done, and that may or may not be
(maybe it increases damage done over time IF the archer has the ra mastery of archery, which increases speed of archery attacks by 3% of the bows base speed? try RF with and without MoArchery and log it)
ie, maybe the increase (that some claim exist, and some dont) in damage comes from the fact that mastery of archery5 (for example) on a 5,0 speed bow gives 5.0*0.15=0.75 sec faster shots (this is without lowering the damage in any way, simply same damage with faster shots)
if you have VERY low quickness, as a theoretical example 35 quickness on an archer, you will shoot VERY slow. 5.0 sec shots, -0.75 sec for moar5 = 4.25 sec shots.
in this low quickness example, moar5 only gives a speed=damage increase of 15%.
now, with heavy quicknessbuffs on a high quickness race, your drawtime without moar5 would be quite exactly 3 seconds with the same 5.o bow. add the .75 sec bonus that moar5 gives and you are down to 2.25 seconds drawtime. in this case, moar5 increased your damageoutput by 25%, significantly greater than on the low quickness example.
IF moarchery also applies in the exactly same way to RAPID fire, which i cant see why it shouldnt, the effect will be even greater and therefore archers with this realm ability can see an effect of greater damage TROUGH faster attackspeed based on a realm ability. since the bonus from mastery of archery becomes greater and greater the faster your natural bowspeed is, im saying that it can increase the damage even a little more when using RF.
this would explain why some archers claim slightly upped damage with RF, and some claim its the same. the ones with moar GETS more damage, the ones with no moar DONT. logs shows both are right.
|
Locked Topic |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
Shriknah
collection | wishlist
Posts:
40
Registered:
Apr '03
|
Date Posted:
6/5/03 6:54am
Subject:
RE: Official Thread: Rapid Fire
|
"Either 30 mins or 10 hours, combination of TS ad RF gives you a power that no other class in the game has, which is "I Win Button"..."
No offense intended, but you can't be serious?
SH would have been an I Win button since RA's came out if it required a button. As it is, until the last patch, SH was just an I win, no button required.
BAoD, BoF also come to mind as I win buttons in many situations, and are certainly more powerful than TS and RF as TS only effects a few classes, while BoF and BAoD each effect near half of the classes in the game.
Many people consider enchanter heat debuff an I win button, many people considered DF to be an I win button up until the last patch....
Honestly, while you might not like being the hunted for 1 out of 30 minutes, you are still the hunter for the other 29, so its kinda hard to swallow, ya know?
-----signature-----
Cry more, IBTL, use tactics, ect...
|
Locked Topic |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
loki_d20
collection | wishlist
Title: Community > *
Posts:
4,797
Registered:
Sep '02
|
Date Posted:
6/5/03 6:55am
Subject:
RE: Official Thread: Rapid Fire
|
<<This may be true, but it really has nothing to do with this thread. Not boosting archers because casters are EVERYONE's first target, and boosting archers means casters can no longer safely pwn them every encounter...well that makes no sense, its not fair to archers>>
You see, this is where the narrowmindedness of many players come in. Everything affects everything in this game.
Boosting archers just made it easier for them to kill casters without giving casters any other ability or compensation where needed.
You're telling me archers aren't going to target casters primarily in combat knowing they can kill them faster? Give me a break.
And as far as casters killing archers easily, you gotta be kidding me. Only a few specs (I believe 5 to be exact) have a ranged attack that will even come close to the range of an archer. Any shot, including a bladeturned shot, will interrupt a caster for 3sec+. A caster only gets one QC, which is often still interrupted due to programming flaws. Archers can stealth and just melee casters if needed. Archers have an easier chance at escaping a bad moment using stealth vs a caster just sprinting off. All those insta cast spells casters have require that the caster be at 1500 range before they can ever use, usually meaning the caster is at 1/2 life by the time they reach that (with fast bow, can get 4 shots fired due to release, reload, hit procedure of arrows).
-----signature-----
Currently Playing: Work-a-Holic
"Don't go looking for dragons to slay" ~Ron Paul
|
Locked Topic |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
surferket
collection | wishlist
Posts:
412
Registered:
Oct '02
|
Date Posted:
6/5/03 7:00am
Subject:
RE: Official Thread: Rapid Fire
|
Vistaakah:
Agree. Most scouts usually start shooting just under our max bow range so running away from the scout will usually save you.
Pre-patch the tactics against scouts is to charge them.
Post patch, targets must learn new tactic of running away first from an archer and then returning for second round.
Seems most do not adapt to the new situation and still try to charge down the archer and when they die to archer they whine for a nerf. I've been suffering for 1.5 years being moo for assassins and so glad that now I got a role to play in rvr.
---------------------------------------------
Lycanon Tsed+RF me for 256 a wack near the apf but silly me ran at him with a mad spear instead of running and coming back to repay the favor. /release....
People fail to realize that with a 4.0 speed bow you can do more dps that Rapid fire does with the exception of scouts. No matter what bow we use we can't go below the hard cap..
God save emain all 10 of us hunters and scouts were just slaying everything in sight. /sarcasm off.
Lonematt Ts'd me at MMG and critted me for 1084 with max melee resists.
Nerf, Nerf, Nerf Lonematt Price you pay for picture taking at mile gates is what i say.
As per reference to scout TL saying RF may be a tad overpowered. Thats same as saying the glass is either half empty or half full.
Bottom line is archers can no longer be ignored and have to be dealt with in the same way you deal with any class with ranged damage.
If people think RF is gonna be my primary source of bow damage they are sadly mistaken. We finally got paid for our year and a half of suffering and for that Mythic i thank you!
-----signature-----
Lethality 50 Kubold Shaman Palomides
Vistaakah 50 Kubold Hunter Palomides
Searay 50 Troll Thane Palomides
|
Locked Topic |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
Danish_bacon
collection | wishlist
Posts:
1,009
Registered:
Feb '03
|
Date Posted:
6/5/03 7:19am
Subject:
RE: Official Thread: Rapid Fire
- Date Edited:
6/5/03 7:20am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Danish_bacon
|
normal shots: 250-400
Rapid fire: 150-200 + more crits + misses/evades dont mean so much
example:
normal shots: 300, 350, 250 = 900.
Rapid fire: 200, 180+100, 150, 180, 200, 200+100 = 1310
if no normal shots variance there would be almost identical damage:
400, 400, 400+200 = 1400
so naturally RF does better damage statistically.
-----signature-----
|
Locked Topic |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
Wizdom6
collection | wishlist
Posts:
100
Registered:
Jun '03
|
Date Posted:
6/5/03 7:26am
Subject:
RE: Official Thread: Rapid Fire
|
Loki
Archers are supposed to kill casters.
Get that through that head of yours.
Balance doesnt mean you have an = chance against each class it means you have an equal array fo targets as any other class.
Archers cant kill tanks and you dont hear Archers bitching that tanks should be nerfed so they have an even chance against them.
You trade armor for massive spell damage. Archers trade armor for lesser damage and range. Tanks trade damage for massive hps and armor.
Assasins, well they tend to own anyone they like:)
As a caster you have a good chance of killing any other class, as an archer we have a fair chance of killing casters (if we get the jump we should win if you see us first you should win), 1 chance every 30 minutes of killing assasins, and next to no chance of killing tanks.
I really dont see what you have to whinge about.
And befoer you try and justify that rubbish you were spouting lemme say those two magic phrases that have been parroted to archers for the last 12 months:-
Cry mor N00b and learn tactics
THAT IS ALL
-----signature-----
Fayde - 50 Scout Galahad (Sold)
Colbey - 50 Paladin Galahad (Sold)
Ryst - 50 Paladin Galahad (sold)
Rystlwulf - 47 Scout Galahad Deleted
Chyg 48 Necro - Mordred Kakaroto - 50 Warden Mordred
|
Locked Topic |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
vn_Briarsprout
collection | wishlist
Posts:
1,155
Registered:
Oct '01
|
Date Posted:
6/5/03 7:29am
Subject:
RE: Official Thread: Rapid Fire
|
"Cry mor N00b and learn tactics"
Why were archers not using tactics when facing PBT? Oh like assisting, grouping, using faster bows and syncing bows.
Mythic and archers got three lines of PBT so non functional that they are reconstructing the lines with new features.
Talk about DOUBTALK and CATERING to ARCERHERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
|
Locked Topic |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
loki_d20
collection | wishlist
Title: Community > *
Posts:
4,797
Registered:
Sep '02
|
Date Posted:
6/5/03 7:30am
Subject:
RE: Official Thread: Rapid Fire
|
<<As a caster you have a good chance of killing any other class, as an archer we have a fair chance of killing casters (if we get the jump we should win if you see us first you should win), 1 chance every 30 minutes of killing assasins, and next to no chance of killing tanks.>>
A post of ignorance.
-----signature-----
Currently Playing: Work-a-Holic
"Don't go looking for dragons to slay" ~Ron Paul
|
Locked Topic |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
vn_Briarsprout
collection | wishlist
Posts:
1,155
Registered:
Oct '01
|
Date Posted:
6/5/03 7:31am
Subject:
RE: Official Thread: Rapid Fire
- Date Edited:
6/5/03 7:34am (2 edits total)
Edited By:
vn_Briarsprout
|
And if you knew your history of this game "noob" casters are supposed to kill tanks...that includes you. Where casters take handicaps in is AF.
But I forgot, archers also wanted the advantage to bypass BT like casters but without the handicaps. 
___
Grrrr, this game collects such assortment of "dudes" it makes ones teeth grind and many of them play archers for some reason. Hmmmmmmmmmm
|
Locked Topic |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
RSS Feeds