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Official Thread: Rapid Fire
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Tosen
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Title: [ToS]en
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6,764
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Dec '01
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Date Posted:
6/4/03 11:59am
Subject:
Official Thread: Rapid Fire
- Date Edited:
6/4/03 10:54pm (2 edits total)
Edited By:
Tosen
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Feel free to discuss thoughts on the new archer ability implemented in 1.62.
Please, keep it flame free, constructive criticism only, post any logs you want etc etc.
Keep the discussion here please 
Enjoy!
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tristang
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Date Posted:
6/4/03 12:00pm
Subject:
RE: Official Thread: Rapid Fire
- Date Edited:
6/4/03 12:01pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
tristang
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Scout TL himself said it was a tad overpowered.
/discussion over.
Edit: Note this is not a call for a nerf. Above I did not say whether RF was good or bad. I just stated a fact.
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Wow, COH, and DAOC
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Vindicoth
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Date Posted:
6/4/03 12:00pm
Subject:
RE: Official Thread: Rapid Fire
- Date Edited:
6/4/03 12:01pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Vindicoth
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I think its great.
I'm sure in Medieval times archers would release their shot soon as they got a good aim and could as soon as possible, not sit there and hold it.
in short,
IT R GUUD!
and how is it overpowered?
They do the same damage, just shooting slightly faster.
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Chargin
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Date Posted:
6/4/03 12:00pm
Subject:
RE: Official Thread: Rapid Fire
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Just want to say.
My druid still has no problem chewing up archers. RF or no RF. They still go down like a drunk flozzy on on saturday night.
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"Humpty Dumpty sat on a wall Humpty Dumpty had a great fall All the kings horses all the kings men had scrambled eggs for dinner again!
My druid still has no problem chewing up archers. RF or no RF. They still go down like a drunk floozie on saturday ni
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Zutroy_
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May '02
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Date Posted:
6/4/03 12:03pm
Subject:
RE: Official Thread: Rapid Fire
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working as intended
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testpig
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Date Posted:
6/4/03 12:04pm
Subject:
RE: Official Thread: Rapid Fire
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when using rapid fire.. the shoots should increase the fummble/miss rate...
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lycaon2
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Nov '02
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Date Posted:
6/4/03 12:04pm
Subject:
RE: Official Thread: Rapid Fire
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I'll post this here since my thread will more then likely be redirected here
Well like most archers yesterday I log on to test out my new toys.
Most impressive at first was RF. I couldn't believe how many kills I was getting. I even began to think it was over powered.
Later that night I started thinking about RF and the kills I got. First contrary to what some people are saying Bows have a speed cap of 1.5. I use the slowest bow in the game. My rapid fire with buffs is somewhere between 2.0-3.0. Without doing all the math I'd say I was shooting at 2.5 for an average of 250-300 versus my normal 450-550 hit. So it also seems I'm doing 50% of my normal damage as I should be doing.
Ok lets do some critical thinking like I did. 2.5 speed at about a 275 average. How many HPs does the average target have buffed? Low side is about 1300 up to about 2100. So lets use the average HPs of 1700. I think thats a fair number considering I'm a scout and buffed I have 1674 HPs. According to those rough averages for HPs and average RF damage it would take 6-7 shots on average to kill someone(I am not going to include misses in these figures so these are best case scenarios). Ok more math 7 and 5 X 2.5 speed is 17.5 and 15 secs respectively on an average target.
Just to make people happy, on a buffed caster with 1300 HPs it would take 5 shots at 12.5 seconds and on a tank 8 shots or 20 secs.
And remember, this is assuming that no arrow shots are blocked, PBTed, evaded, or miss which is an extreme rarity. Remember bow shots are not styles and hit much less then styles. On average I'd say archers will now land around 60% with the recent changes.
Anyway you look at the math though, 15-20 seconds is way more then enough time to escape an archer. So the question remains, why did I get so many kills since it is so easy to run away from RF.
Then it hit me. After thinking about all the fights, a common theme was found. Almost all of them turned on me and either began trying to cast or run to me to melee me down.
Archers have been so easy to kill for so long people are use to it. They see archer and they see RPs.
At this point I can't say is RF is over powered or not. How can you accurately judge an ability when people are trying to counter it with bad tactics?
Once people start using the numerous tools in game to counter archers and start running away instead of trying to get the archer to go moo like the old days then I think we can acuratly address RF as a balanced addition or not.
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animalbard
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Date Posted:
6/4/03 12:07pm
Subject:
RE: Official Thread: Rapid Fire
- Date Edited:
6/4/03 12:08pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
animalbard
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Does anyone have any logs of Rapid Fire doing More damage over time than normal shots?
So far all I can say for sure is:
1) Rapid fire costs MORE endurance over time.
2) Rapid fire can compete with even mages' quick casting (welcome back to mages kill tanks who kill archers who kill mages).
*3) Rapid fire = twice as likely to activate a reactive proc over time.
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Squigg-
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Jul '02
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Date Posted:
6/4/03 12:07pm
Subject:
RE: Official Thread: Rapid Fire
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people need to learn the valuable tactics of "running away" and "getting a group", both which counter the archer's 'uber' new abilities perfectly adequately.
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Draetor24
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Dec '02
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Date Posted:
6/4/03 12:07pm
Subject:
RE: Official Thread: Rapid Fire
- Date Edited:
6/4/03 12:12pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Draetor24
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HOW is RF working as intended?
What is the point of using a 3.0spd bow over a 5.5spd bow when you can fire both a 1.0spd and get much more dmg from the coding behind the 5.5spd bow? Why not use a 10.spd bow so you can fire it at 1.0spd and get the dmg benefit off the 10.0spd?
If RF is not overpowered, would be ok to say an Armsman with a 5.5spd Polearm has the Quick Thrust atk so instead of hitting you for 500dmg every 5.5s they hit you for 300dmg every 1s? What's the point of using normal atk when your DPS increases tremendously by using your Rapid Fire?
RF was a situational ability, it wasn't meant to make normal atks useless. As of right now, normal bow atks and low speed bows are useless with Rapid Fire. Using the slowest bow you can find and firing it at 1.0spd is what makes RF overpowered.
""Without doing all the math I'd say I was shooting at 2.5 for an average of 250-300 versus my normal 450-550 hit. So it also seems I'm doing 50% of my normal damage as I should be doing.""
I don't have to be on the side of the archer to know I'm being hit at a maximum of 1s intervals between arrows. If I see a Scout non-stealth at maximum range rdy to nock an arrow at me, by the time I turn around and run away, I get an additional 2 more before his AK47 is done firing. On cloth, RF shots hitting me 200-250 every 1.0spd and before patch, Scouts hitting me 350-400dmg with their regular bow spd.
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animalbard
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Date Posted:
6/4/03 12:11pm
Subject:
RE: Official Thread: Rapid Fire
- Date Edited:
6/4/03 12:12pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
animalbard
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"What is the point of using a 3.0spd bow over a 5.5spd bow when you can fire both a 1.0spd and get much more dmg from the coding behind the 5.5spd bow? Why not use a 10.spd bow so you can fire it at 1.0spd and get the dmg benefit off the 10.0spd?"
COMPLETE NONSENSE!
the hard cap is 1.5 secs for any type of bow shot. at most RF shaves off half the bow speed for half the damage.
Please stop posting now, before you hurt yourself.
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Danish_bacon
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Feb '03
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Date Posted:
6/4/03 12:12pm
Subject:
RE: Official Thread: Rapid Fire
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"Why not use a 10.spd bow so you can fire it at 1.0spd and get the dmg benefit off the 10.0spd?"
too bad there are no 10 spd bows. btw, 10/2 = 1??
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slythetove
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Title: Julie's Pool Boy
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18,063
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Nov '01
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Date Posted:
6/4/03 12:12pm
Subject:
RE: Official Thread: Rapid Fire
- Date Edited:
6/4/03 12:29pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
slythetove
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Here are the logs showing the issue:
Click for logged evidence
--Sly
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B000mer
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Date Posted:
6/4/03 12:13pm
Subject:
RE: Official Thread: Rapid Fire
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I can understand what you are saying, but if we cannot take you on and our only viable thing to do is run away, does that not tell you something?
What is to stop you from kiting us?
What is to stop you from killing us anyway?
A running caster is like a moving target for tanks, Assassins, Archers, and other casters.
I am glad you are getting alot of kills and having fun.
Too bad that in order to boost 3 classes so they can have fun again, then end up nerfing many more in the process making those players stop playing the end game anymore.
I certainly hope you can take a keep on your own with assassins. Visible chars that cannot combat you or Assassins are being shelved like hotcakes as end game is not longer viable as of this patch.
Not all players can play all day and get the best RAs and gear to combat you.
Can you not see that this is an extremely overpowered ability that the Pgamers will milk on the rest of the playerbase until a huge nerf hits again?
People are given the choice now:
1) shelf and create a stealther
2) quit the game
3) retire to Gaheris
4) Do BGs perma as this is where things are most balanced for RvR now.
5) continue to be farmed day in and day out by uber adolescences that can spend 8 hours a day in game.
Nice - eh?
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Emblazer
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Jan '02
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Date Posted:
6/4/03 12:13pm
Subject:
RE: Official Thread: Rapid Fire
- Date Edited:
6/4/03 12:26pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Emblazer
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Yesterday I got shot down under 5 second with around 1000 hp, didn't take SS due to I released too fast. 5 secs that's all..... I was in a bit of shock after that, literally Machine gun like speed =)
Not to cry nerf but I didn't enjoy the old day of one shot kill by Archers and I certainly won't enjoy the Machine gun run down by Archers now. Before I log off yesterday bunch of Scouts were Volleying against PK guard (grin), I bet they are having fun now =) I'm not asking to take away anything from Archers but just hopefully they take close look on how these changes affects people that don't have the hp to withstand the initial Rf assult.
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Draetor24
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Date Posted:
6/4/03 12:14pm
Subject:
RE: Official Thread: Rapid Fire
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Read my post before performing stupid formulas like 10/2 = 1, what does that mean? 10.0spd bows do not exist and I was using them in my argument as if they were to exist.
Please read posts carefully before you both hurt yourself.
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