| Author |
Topic:
Detailed logs of Rapid Fire, results MAY surprise you
|
Phar0z 
Posts: 702
Registered: May 03
|
Date Posted:
6/4 5:51am
Subject: Detailed logs of Rapid Fire, results MAY surprise you
- Date Edited: 6/4 5:52am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Phar0z
|
Purpose of test: Show if Rapid Fire increases DPS. Tests done while fully buffed.
Test subjects:
50 Ranger. 50 Druid
Ranger stats:
45 + 13 Bow
16.5 99 qual bow used. 5.5 speed.
16.0 effective DPS.
Pierce Arrows
350 Dex. 281 Quickness.
Druid stats:
283 Con. 1775 HP.
Criticals NOT counted. Misses damage will be judged by median of low and high in test.
Light damage arrows used to get off more shots.
*** Chat Log Opened: Wed Jun 04 08:09:47 2003
[08:09:56] @@[Guild] Pharrell: "First test. 10 Regular bow shots. NO rapid fire used. Dueling 50 druid, behind target. Both targets fully buffed."
[08:09:56] You target [Gimptastic]
[08:09:56] You examine Gimptastic. He is a member of the Druid class in your realm.
[08:09:58] You prepare your shot (3s to fire, target is in range)
[08:09:58] You will now automatically release your shot.
[08:09:59] You will now automatically release your shot and reload.
[08:10:01] You prepare your shot (3s to fire, target is in range)
[08:10:01] You shoot Gimptastic with your bow and hit for 262 (-32) damage!
[08:10:01] You hit Gimptastic for 12 extra damage!
[08:10:02] You will now automatically release your shot.
[08:10:02] You will now automatically release your shot and reload.
[08:10:05] You prepare your shot (3s to fire, target is in range)
[08:10:05] You shoot Gimptastic with your bow and hit for 241 (-30) damage!
[08:10:05] You hit Gimptastic for 8 extra damage!
[08:10:06] You will now automatically release your shot.
[08:10:06] You will now automatically release your shot and reload.
[08:10:08] You prepare your shot (3s to fire, target is in range)
[08:10:08] You shoot Gimptastic with your bow and hit for 204 (-25) damage!
[08:10:08] You hit Gimptastic for 9 extra damage!
[08:10:09] You will now automatically release your shot.
[08:10:09] You will now automatically release your shot and reload.
[08:10:12] You prepare your shot (3s to fire, target is in range)
[08:10:12] You shoot Gimptastic with your bow and hit for 221 (-27) damage!
[08:10:12] You hit Gimptastic for 10 extra damage!
[08:10:13] You will now automatically release your shot.
[08:10:13] You will now automatically release your shot and reload.
[08:10:14] You prepare your shot (3s to fire, target is in range)
[08:10:15] You shoot Gimptastic with your bow and hit for 255 (-31) damage!
[08:10:15] You critical hit for an additional 58 damage!
[08:10:15] You hit Gimptastic for 12 extra damage!
[08:10:15] You will now automatically release your shot.
[08:10:15] You will now automatically release your shot and reload.
[08:10:18] You prepare your shot (3s to fire, target is in range)
[08:10:18] You shoot Gimptastic with your bow and hit for 246 (-30) damage!
[08:10:18] You hit Gimptastic for 7 extra damage!
[08:10:19] You sit down. Type '/stand' or move to stand up.
[08:10:19] You move and interrupt your shot!
*** Chat Log Closed: Wed Jun 04 08:10:21 2003
Based on my math. 17 seconds to shoot 6 shots. 2.8 draw time.
1429 total damage in 17 seconds. 84.05 DPS
*** Chat Log Opened: Wed Jun 04 08:10:43 2003
[08:11:02] @@[Guild] Pharrell: "Test two. Same thing."
[08:11:02] You stand up.
[08:11:02] You prepare your shot (3s to fire, target is in range)
[08:11:02] You will now automatically release your shot.
[08:11:04] You will now automatically release your shot and reload.
[08:11:06] You prepare your shot (3s to fire, target is in range)
[08:11:06] You shoot Gimptastic with your bow and hit for 213 (-26) damage!
[08:11:06] You hit Gimptastic for 12 extra damage!
[08:11:07] You will now automatically release your shot.
[08:11:07] You will now automatically release your shot and reload.
[08:11:10] You prepare your shot (3s to fire, target is in range)
[08:11:10] You shoot Gimptastic with your bow and hit for 204 (-25) damage!
[08:11:10] You critical hit for an additional 71 damage!
[08:11:10] You hit Gimptastic for 11 extra damage!
[08:11:10] You will now automatically release your shot.
[08:11:10] You will now automatically release your shot and reload.
[08:11:13] You prepare your shot (3s to fire, target is in range)
[08:11:13] You shoot Gimptastic with your bow and hit for 281 (-35) damage!
[08:11:13] You hit Gimptastic for 11 extra damage!
[08:11:14] You will now automatically release your shot.
[08:11:14] You will now automatically release your shot and reload.
[08:11:16] You prepare your shot (3s to fire, target is in range)
[08:11:16] You shoot Gimptastic with your bow and hit for 222 (-27) damage!
[08:11:16] You hit Gimptastic for 10 extra damage!
[08:11:18] You will now automatically release your shot.
[08:11:18] You will now automatically release your shot and reload.
[08:11:20] You prepare your shot (3s to fire, target is in range)
[08:11:20] You shoot Gimptastic with your bow and hit for 255 (-32) damage!
[08:11:20] You hit Gimptastic for 10 extra damage!
[08:11:21] You will now automatically release your shot.
[08:11:21] You will now automatically release your shot and reload.
[08:11:22] You prepare your shot (3s to fire, target is in range)
[08:11:24] You shoot Gimptastic with your bow and hit for 227 (-28) damage!
[08:11:24] You hit Gimptastic for 7 extra damage!
[08:11:25] You sit down. Type '/stand' or move to stand up.
[08:11:25] You move and interrupt your shot!
*** Chat Log Closed: Wed Jun 04 08:11:30 2003
18 Seconds to shoot 6 times. 3 second exact draw time.
1402 total damage in 18 seconds. 77.88 DPS
*** Chat Log Opened: Wed Jun 04 08:11:55 2003
[08:12:00] @@[Guild] Pharrell: "Test three. Same thing."
[08:12:00] You stand up.
[08:12:00] You prepare your shot (3s to fire, target is in range)
[08:12:00] You will now automatically release your shot.
[08:12:02] You will now automatically release your shot and reload.
[08:12:04] You prepare your shot (3s to fire, target is in range)
[08:12:04] You shoot Gimptastic with your bow and hit for 204 (-25) damage!
[08:12:04] You hit Gimptastic for 10 extra damage!
[08:12:05] You will now automatically release your shot.
[08:12:05] You will now automatically release your shot and reload.
[08:12:08] You prepare your shot (3s to fire, target is in range)
[08:12:08] You shoot Gimptastic with your bow and hit for 259 (-32) damage!
[08:12:08] You hit Gimptastic for 10 extra damage!
[08:12:09] You will now automatically release your shot.
[08:12:09] You will now automatically release your shot and reload.
[08:12:11] You prepare your shot (3s to fire, target is in range)
[08:12:11] You shoot Gimptastic with your bow and hit for 257 (-32) damage!
[08:12:11] You hit Gimptastic for 11 extra damage!
[08:12:11] You will now automatically release your shot.
[08:12:11] You will now automatically release your shot and reload.
[08:12:14] You prepare your shot (3s to fire, target is in range)
[08:12:14] You shoot Gimptastic with your bow and hit for 257 (-32) damage!
[08:12:14] You hit Gimptastic for 7 extra damage!
[08:12:15] You will now automatically release your shot.
[08:12:15] You will now automatically release your shot and reload.
[08:12:18] You prepare your shot (3s to fire, target is in range)
[08:12:18] You shoot Gimptastic with your bow and hit for 245 (-30) damage!
[08:12:18] You hit Gimptastic for 12 extra damage!
[08:12:19] You will now automatically release your shot.
[08:12:19] You will now automatically release your shot and reload.
[08:12:21] You prepare your shot (3s to fire, target is in range)
[08:12:21] You shoot Gimptastic with your bow and hit for 242 (-30) damage!
[08:12:21] You hit Gimptastic for 8 extra damage!
[08:12:23] You sit down. Type '/stand' or move to stand up.
[08:12:23] You move and interrupt your shot!
*** Chat Log Closed: Wed Jun 04 08:12:24 2003
17 seconds to shoot 6 shots. 2.8 draw time.
1464 total damage in 17 seconds. 86 dps
~~~~~~~ RAPID FIRE NOW ON ~~~~~~~~~
*** Chat Log Opened: Wed Jun 04 08:14:13 2003
[08:14:33] @@[Guild] Pharrell: "Test four. Rapid fire being used. Shooting till druid is near death."
[08:14:34] You stand up.
[08:14:36] You switch to rapid fire mode.
[08:14:37] You prepare your shot (3s to fire, target is in range)
[08:14:37] You will now automatically release your shot.
[08:14:38] You will now automatically release your shot and reload.
[08:14:39] You prepare your shot (3s to fire, target is in range)
[08:14:39] You shoot Gimptastic with your bow and hit for 191 (-24) damage!
[08:14:39] You hit Gimptastic for 9 extra damage!
[08:14:40] You will now automatically release your shot.
[08:14:40] You will now automatically release your shot and reload.
[08:14:40] You prepare your shot (3s to fire, target is in range)
[08:14:41] You shoot Gimptastic with your bow and hit for 178 (-22) damage!
[08:14:41] You hit Gimptastic for 11 extra damage!
[08:14:41] You will now automatically release your shot.
[08:14:41] You will now automatically release your shot and reload.
[08:14:42] You prepare your shot (3s to fire, target is in range)
[08:14:42] You shoot Gimptastic with your bow and hit for 161 (-20) damage!
[08:14:42] You critical hit for an additional 24 damage!
[08:14:42] You hit Gimptastic for 8 extra damage!
[08:14:44] You will now automatically release your shot.
[08:14:44] You will now automatically release your shot and reload.
[08:14:44] You prepare your shot (3s to fire, target is in range)
[08:14:44] You shoot Gimptastic with your bow and hit for 173 (-21) damage!
[08:14:44] You hit Gimptastic for 11 extra damage!
[08:14:44] You will now automatically release your shot.
[08:14:44] You will now automatically release your shot and reload.
[08:14:45] You prepare your shot (3s to fire, target is in range)
[08:14:46] You shoot Gimptastic with your bow and hit for 151 (-19) damage!
[08:14:46] You hit Gimptastic for 11 extra damage!
[08:14:46] You will now automatically release your shot.
[08:14:46] You will now automatically release your shot and reload.
[08:14:47] You prepare your shot (3s to fire, target is in range)
[08:14:48] You shoot Gimptastic with your bow and hit for 139 (-17) damage!
[08:14:48] You hit Gimptastic for 9 extra damage!
[08:14:48] You will now automatically release your shot.
[08:14:48] You will now automatically release your shot and reload.
[08:14:49] You prepare your shot (3s to fire, target is in range)
[08:14:49] You miss!
[08:14:50] You will now automatically release your shot.
[08:14:50] You will now automatically release your shot and reload.
[08:14:50] You prepare your shot (3s to fire, target is in range)
[08:14:51] You shoot Gimptastic with your bow and hit for 142 (-17) damage!
[08:14:51] You hit Gimptastic for 12 extra damage!
[08:14:51] You will now automatically release your shot.
[08:14:51] You will now automatically release your shot and reload.
[08:14:52] You prepare your shot (3s to fire, target is in range)
[08:14:52] You shoot Gimptastic with your bow and hit for 171 (-21) damage!
[08:14:52] You hit Gimptastic for 8 extra damage!
[08:14:54] You will now automatically release your shot.
[08:14:54] You will now automatically release your shot and reload.
[08:14:54] You prepare your shot (3s to fire, target is in range)
[08:14:55] You shoot Gimptastic with your bow and hit for 189 (-23) damage!
[08:14:55] You hit Gimptastic for 10 extra damage!
[08:14:55] You sit down. Type '/stand' or move to stand up.
[08:14:55] You move and interrupt your shot!
*** Chat Log Closed: Wed Jun 04 08:14:57 2003
16 seconds to shoot 10 shots. 1.6 draw time.
2 misses. 165 average damage on misses (High and low shot in test added and dividied to find middle number)
1825 total damage (with misses added) in 16 seconds. 114 DPS
*** Chat Log Opened: Wed Jun 04 08:16:00 2003
[08:16:11] @@[Guild] Pharrell: "Test five. Rapid fire being used. Shooting till near death"
[08:16:11] You stand up.
[08:16:12] You prepare your shot (3s to fire, target is in range)
[08:16:12] You will now automatically release your shot.
[08:16:12] You will now automatically release your shot and reload.
[08:16:13] You prepare your shot (3s to fire, target is in range)
[08:16:13] You miss!
[08:16:14] You will now automatically release your shot.
[08:16:14] You will now automatically release your shot and reload.
[08:16:14] You prepare your shot (3s to fire, target is in range)
[08:16:15] You miss!
[08:16:16] You will now automatically release your shot.
[08:16:16] You will now automatically release your shot and reload.
[08:16:17] You prepare your shot (3s to fire, target is in range)
[08:16:17] You shoot Gimptastic with your bow and hit for 138 (-17) damage!
[08:16:17] You hit Gimptastic for 8 extra damage!
[08:16:17] You will now automatically release your shot.
[08:16:18] You will now automatically release your shot and reload.
[08:16:18] You prepare your shot (3s to fire, target is in range)
[08:16:19] You shoot Gimptastic with your bow and hit for 142 (-18) damage!
[08:16:19] You hit Gimptastic for 10 extra damage!
[08:16:19] You will now automatically release your shot.
[08:16:19] You will now automatically release your shot and reload.
[08:16:20] You prepare your shot (3s to fire, target is in range)
[08:16:20] You shoot Gimptastic with your bow and hit for 144 (-18) damage!
[08:16:20] You hit Gimptastic for 9 extra damage!
[08:16:21] You will now automatically release your shot.
[08:16:21] You will now automatically release your shot and reload.
[08:16:21] You prepare your shot (3s to fire, target is in range)
[08:16:22] You shoot Gimptastic with your bow and hit for 144 (-18) damage!
[08:16:22] You hit Gimptastic for 10 extra damage!
[08:16:22] You will now automatically release your shot.
[08:16:22] You will now automatically release your shot and reload.
[08:16:23] You prepare your shot (3s to fire, target is in range)
[08:16:24] You shoot Gimptastic with your bow and hit for 149 (-18) damage!
[08:16:24] You critical hit for an additional 29 damage!
[08:16:24] You hit Gimptastic for 10 extra damage!
[08:16:24] You will now automatically release your shot.
[08:16:24] You will now automatically release your shot and reload.
[08:16:25] You prepare your shot (3s to fire, target is in range)
[08:16:25] You shoot Gimptastic with your bow and hit for 143 (-18) damage!
[08:16:25] You hit Gimptastic for 12 extra damage!
[08:16:26] You will now automatically release your shot.
[08:16:26] You will now automatically release your shot and reload.
[08:16:26] You prepare your shot (3s to fire, target is in range)
[08:16:27] You shoot Gimptastic with your bow and hit for 157 (-19) damage!
[08:16:27] You critical hit for an additional 48 damage!
[08:16:27] You hit Gimptastic for 8 extra damage!
[08:16:28] You will now automatically release your shot.
[08:16:28] You will now automatically release your shot and reload.
[08:16:29] You prepare your shot (3s to fire, target is in range)
[08:16:29] You shoot Gimptastic with your bow and hit for 139 (-17) damage!
[08:16:29] You critical hit for an additional 33 damage!
[08:16:29] You hit Gimptastic for 11 extra damage!
[08:16:30] You will now automatically release your shot.
[08:16:30] You will now automatically release your shot and reload.
[08:16:30] You prepare your shot (3s to fire, target is in range)
[08:16:30] You shoot Gimptastic with your bow and hit for 180 (-22) damage!
[08:16:30] You hit Gimptastic for 11 extra damage!
[08:16:32] You sit down. Type '/stand' or move to stand up.
[08:16:32] You move and interrupt your shot!
*** Chat Log Closed: Wed Jun 04 08:16:33 2003
17 seconds to shoot 11 shots. 1.54 second draw time.
2 misses. 159 damage average.
1654 total damage (missed added in) in 17 seconds. 97 DPS.
*** Chat Log Opened: Wed Jun 04 08:17:21 2003
[08:17:33] @@[Guild] Pharrell: "Test six. Rapid fire being used. Shooting till ner death"
[08:17:33] You stand up.
[08:17:34] You prepare your shot (3s to fire, target is in range)
[08:17:34] You will now automatically release your shot.
[08:17:34] You will now automatically release your shot and reload.
[08:17:36] You prepare your shot (3s to fire, target is in range)
[08:17:36] You miss!
[08:17:37] You will now automatically release your shot.
[08:17:37] You will now automatically release your shot and reload.
[08:17:37] You prepare your shot (3s to fire, target is in range)
[08:17:38] You shoot Gimptastic with your bow and hit for 173 (-21) damage!
[08:17:38] You hit Gimptastic for 9 extra damage!
[08:17:38] You will now automatically release your shot.
[08:17:38] You will now automatically release your shot and reload.
[08:17:39] You prepare your shot (3s to fire, target is in range)
[08:17:40] You miss!
[08:17:40] You will now automatically release your shot.
[08:17:40] You will now automatically release your shot and reload.
[08:17:41] You prepare your shot (3s to fire, target is in range)
[08:17:41] You shoot Gimptastic with your bow and hit for 144 (-18) damage!
[08:17:41] You hit Gimptastic for 10 extra damage!
[08:17:42] You will now automatically release your shot.
[08:17:42] You will now automatically release your shot and reload.
[08:17:43] You prepare your shot (3s to fire, target is in range)
[08:17:43] You shoot Gimptastic with your bow and hit for 194 (-24) damage!
[08:17:43] You hit Gimptastic for 9 extra damage!
[08:17:44] You will now automatically release your shot.
[08:17:44] You will now automatically release your shot and reload.
[08:17:44] You prepare your shot (3s to fire, target is in range)
[08:17:45] You shoot Gimptastic with your bow and hit for 142 (-18) damage!
[08:17:45] You hit Gimptastic for 9 extra damage!
[08:17:45] You will now automatically release your shot.
[08:17:45] You will now automatically release your shot and reload.
[08:17:46] You prepare your shot (3s to fire, target is in range)
[08:17:46] You shoot Gimptastic with your bow and hit for 189 (-23) damage!
[08:17:46] You critical hit for an additional 54 damage!
[08:17:46] You hit Gimptastic for 10 extra damage!
[08:17:47] You will now automatically release your shot.
[08:17:47] You will now automatically release your shot and reload.
[08:17:48] You prepare your shot (3s to fire, target is in range)
[08:17:48] You shoot Gimptastic with your bow and hit for 145 (-18) damage!
[08:17:48] You hit Gimptastic for 8 extra damage!
[08:17:49] You will now automatically release your shot.
[08:17:49] You will now automatically release your shot and reload.
[08:17:49] You prepare your shot (3s to fire, target is in range)
[08:17:50] You shoot Gimptastic with your bow and hit for 142 (-18) damage!
[08:17:50] You hit Gimptastic for 8 extra damage!
[08:17:50] You will now automatically release your shot.
[08:17:50] You will now automatically release your shot and reload.
[08:17:51] You prepare your shot (3s to fire, target is in range)
[08:17:52] You shoot Gimptastic with your bow and hit for 144 (-18) damage!
[08:17:52] You hit Gimptastic for 7 extra damage!
[08:17:52] You will now automatically release your shot.
[08:17:53] You will now automatically release your shot and reload.
[08:17:53] You prepare your shot (3s to fire, target is in range)
[08:17:53] You shoot Gimptastic with your bow and hit for 148 (-18) damage!
[08:17:53] You hit Gimptastic for 10 extra damage!
[08:17:53] You sit down. Type '/stand' or move to stand up.
[08:17:54] You move and interrupt your shot!
*** Chat Log Closed: Wed Jun 04 08:17:55 2003
16 seconds to shoot 11 shots. 1.45 draw time
2 misses. 165 average damage.
1751 total damage in 16 seconds. 109 DPS
Conclusion:
Non-rapid fire
Test 1: 2.8 Draw. 84.05 DPS
Test 2: 3.0 Draw. 77.88 DPS
Test 3: 2.8 Draw. 86.00 DPS
Average: 2.86 Draw. 82.64 DPS
Rapid fire
Test 4: 1.60 Draw. 114.00 DPS
Test 5: 1.54 Draw. 97.00 DPS
Test 6: 1.45 Draw. 109.00 DPS
Average: 1.53 Draw. 106.00 DPS
I realize this test isnt very extencive, and not many shots taken to get exact draw time. But I feel it prove what people have been noticing. Rapid fire DOES increase DPS.
However, it does this at the cost of more endurance use and most arrows.
Also, appears that rapid fire does NOT take you below the 1.5 draw time cap.
Either this was intended, to give archers back the damage that was slowly nerfd over months and month of stealth nerfs, or its a bug. If its a bug, it may have something to do with the draw speed cap messing up damage.
Yes, my main IS a 50 ranger who I very much enjoy now. I feel that I am quite a threat if left alone on the battle field using rapid fire, allowing me to get off MANY more arrows, shooting LESS dead people (arrow shoots after person dies) and increasing my DPS. I can still be assassin'd. I can still be mez'd, nearsighted, interrupted, killed. I have no cheap RAs, no specable defense, and I certenly dont hold up very well to a melee vs melee fight vs a tank.
This is where archers should have been from the beginning. DPS may need an adjustment if its truely a bug, but even if its fixed, I feel rapid fire will still help archers out alot.
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Gimps Mafia
Mid/Lance 50 Thane(Craft-Bot)/50 Berserker
Hib/Pell 50 Chanter(Retired)/50 Ranger(Semi-retired)
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Phar0z
Posts: 702
Registered: May 03
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Date Posted:
6/4 6:10am
Subject: RE: Detailed logs of Rapid Fire, results MAY surprise you
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bump
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Gimps Mafia
Mid/Lance 50 Thane(Craft-Bot)/50 Berserker
Hib/Pell 50 Chanter(Retired)/50 Ranger(Semi-retired)
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tristang 
Posts: 3,860
Registered: Apr 02
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Date Posted:
6/4 6:12am
Subject: RE: Detailed logs of Rapid Fire, results MAY surprise you
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It's interesting how the one post here that actually show the truth gets ignored.
I guess archers want this post to silently go away.
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Dobraine 50 champ (retired)
---Pellinor, a.k.a. rp-whore elitist mecca
dozens of other classes on various servers
Casual Gamer: "Hi SOE, I like to craft!"
SOE: "Bug off. You're not wanted here."
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Thron1
Posts: 2,378
Registered: Sep 01
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Date Posted:
6/4 6:14am
Subject: RE: Detailed logs of Rapid Fire, results MAY surprise you
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well I hope before people start screaming about nerf...
they remember what the engage skill is for..
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Znail-2
Posts: 506
Registered: Apr 03
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Date Posted:
6/4 6:15am
Subject: RE: Detailed logs of Rapid Fire, results MAY surprise you
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Scary part is that by excluding the bad luck misses so does the damage over time increase even more with RF.
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Phar0z
Posts: 702
Registered: May 03
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Date Posted:
6/4 6:17am
Subject: RE: Detailed logs of Rapid Fire, results MAY surprise you
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The questions I'm now asking are:
"Was this intended?"
"Is there a bug anywhere in rapid fire thats causing more damage?"
"Does this make archer classes 'overpowered'"
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Gimps Mafia
Mid/Lance 50 Thane(Craft-Bot)/50 Berserker
Hib/Pell 50 Chanter(Retired)/50 Ranger(Semi-retired)
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Lifeviin
Posts: 2,562
Registered: Feb 02
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Date Posted:
6/4 6:18am
Subject: RE: Detailed logs of Rapid Fire, results MAY surprise you
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Of course it does slightly higher DoT.. youa re shooting faster.
What this shows is that those people who are saying that they are getting hit for 300+ by someone using rapid fire is lieing through their teeth(or maybe 10-15 levels below the user and with crap equipment and resists).
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Lifeviin Thistleknot the Rabid Luri and Munchkin Ranger and Guildmistress of Shadow Dancers
Elendara Thistleknot, 1/2 Rabid, 1/2 Poison.. All Nightshade
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rosaspina 
Posts: 115
Registered: May 03
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Date Posted:
6/4 6:22am
Subject: RE: Detailed logs of Rapid Fire, results MAY surprise you
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It was a druid (scale). If you add critics and you use the right arrows you can easily get 2-300 damage ...
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Rosaspina lvl 50 Warden on Vortigern
Boccadirosa lvl 50 Bard on Vortigern (unused)
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Phar0z
Posts: 702
Registered: May 03
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Date Posted:
6/4 6:23am
Subject: RE: Detailed logs of Rapid Fire, results MAY surprise you
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I'd also like to note, I was losing LIGHT DAMAGE ARROWS during this test, to get more shots on the druid before having him heal.
LIGHT DAMAGE ARROWS WERE USED.
If I had used x-heavy damage, the damage would be a bit higher.
Just a clarification.
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Hib/Pell 50 Chanter(Retired)/50 Ranger(Semi-retired)
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Killga
Posts: 958
Registered: Mar 02
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Date Posted:
6/4 6:26am
Subject: RE: Detailed logs of Rapid Fire, results MAY surprise you
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The sample is way too small to be sure if the difference in dps is really statistically significant...
Anyway IF Mythic really increased dps with RF - and I dont claim they did - you would have to assume they did it on purpose... Considering the excessive nerfs of bow damage and draw times (aka dps of archery) of the last 1 1/2 years it wouldnt be that surprising either...
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I pass the test. I will diminish, and go into the West, and remain Killga.
<|--- Huntress Isen Herra on Guinevere ---<<<
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Phar0z
Posts: 702
Registered: May 03
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Date Posted:
6/4 6:29am
Subject: RE: Detailed logs of Rapid Fire, results MAY surprise you
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"The sample is way too small to be sure if the difference in dps is really statistically significant... "
Exactally. I would have to run many many tests to get a perfect draw time number and very good average of DPS. However, there appears to be a difference, I just dont feel its "statistically significant" enough to require a hard nerfing.
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Phar0z
Posts: 702
Registered: May 03
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Date Posted:
6/4 6:49am
Subject: RE: Detailed logs of Rapid Fire, results MAY surprise you
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^
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Gimps Mafia
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Hib/Pell 50 Chanter(Retired)/50 Ranger(Semi-retired)
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Killga
Posts: 958
Registered: Mar 02
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Date Posted:
6/4 6:49am
Subject: RE: Detailed logs of Rapid Fire, results MAY surprise you
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>>>Exactally. I would have to run many many tests to get a perfect draw time number and very good average of DPS. However, there appears to be a difference, I just dont feel its "statistically significant" enough to require a hard nerfing. <<<
Technically speaking given the sample and its result you cannot refute the zero hypothesis that the average dps is the same (which is exactly what Mythic claimed in the patch notes)...
Unless you can prove it with hard statistical facts - i.e. a large enough sample that shows a staistically significant difference - phrases like "I feel" or "it appears" dont mean anything... 
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I pass the test. I will diminish, and go into the West, and remain Killga.
<|--- Huntress Isen Herra on Guinevere ---<<<
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Ridien
Posts: 1,424
Registered: Jan 02
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Date Posted:
6/4 6:58am
Subject: RE: Detailed logs of Rapid Fire, results MAY surprise you
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What's the DPS without the misses added in?
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Aeiedel
Posts: 629
Registered: May 02
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Date Posted:
6/4 7:03am
Subject: RE: Detailed logs of Rapid Fire, results MAY surprise you
- Date Edited: 6/4 7:04am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Aeiedel
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The dps is the same. explaination below.
RF : 86.78
Normal : 82.64
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don't the rapid fire shots cost the same amount of end as the normal shots though? that would be the way i would rationalize the RF shots having a higher dps. while for a period you can have highed dps, you will run ooe faster
also imo the misses should be counted as 0 and not an average of the high and low damage values. the misses are part of the run of data and so should be counted as 0
including the misses as 0 the average DPS goes down to 86.78 dps for RF, which is on a par with the 82.64 dps for normal shots and within an acceptable range of error
this thread is an example of truthful data that has been used slightly wrongly and thus gets a misleading statment 
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Aeiedel Aldaron : Level 50 Nightshade
Lucil Linelda : Level 50 Enchanter
Eilanna : Level 2x Staffshade
RvR Commander of <Celtic Fist>, Excalibur (euro)
"Not just another midget in a gimpsuit"
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Phar0z
Posts: 702
Registered: May 03
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Date Posted:
6/4 7:08am
Subject: RE: Detailed logs of Rapid Fire, results MAY surprise you
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"including the misses as 0 the average DPS goes down to 86.78 dps for RF, which is on a par with the 82.64 dps for normal shots and within an acceptable range of error"
Rapid fire would still do more damage over time. A miss without rapid fire will hurt DPS alot more then a miss with rapid fire. This is the same reason why fast weapons are not that great for RvR (no frontload) but overtime their damage usually is equal or above the damage of slower weapons.
I have yet to see proof where rapid fire does LESS damage then normal bow shots, even with misses not counted. All I have seen is it doing MORE damage, reguardless of how much.
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Hib/Pell 50 Chanter(Retired)/50 Ranger(Semi-retired)
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kildorn
Posts: 1,768
Registered: Feb 02
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Date Posted:
6/4 7:16am
Subject: RE: Detailed logs of Rapid Fire, results MAY surprise you
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Correct me if I'm completely off my rocker again, my my memory of math is that an average is the sum of all values divided by the number of data elements.
The mean is the high value and low value averaged.
Anyways, misses should be counted as just that "whups", not a damage value. If misses were counted as DPS, my warden would have a 12.0 total dps versus a tank. Which simply is a false statement. Just so happens his weaponskill sucks, and he has issues hitting defensive tanks.
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Trohama
Posts: 2,288
Registered: Jun 02
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Date Posted:
6/4 7:23am
Subject: RE: Detailed logs of Rapid Fire, results MAY surprise you
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>>>Exactally. I would have to run many many tests to get a perfect draw time number and very good average of DPS. However, there appears to be a difference, I just dont feel its "statistically significant" enough to require a hard nerfing. <<<
Technically speaking given the sample and its result you cannot refute the zero hypothesis that the average dps is the same (which is exactly what Mythic claimed in the patch notes)...
Unless you can prove it with hard statistical facts - i.e. a large enough sample that shows a staistically significant difference - phrases like "I feel" or "it appears" dont mean anything...
-------------------------------------------------
A zero hypothesis is just an assumption. You could start with the zero hypothesis that RF has a higher dps adn does higher damage, in which case these logs prove the hypothesis.
Better yet go out yourself and test it, I did, rapid fire does more damage. Granted it takes up lots of end, but one on one an archer is almost unbeatable now.
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Trohama Fidelis
50 Armsman - Percival
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Mr.McLean1
Posts: 677
Registered: Dec 02
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Date Posted:
6/4 7:27am
Subject: RE: Detailed logs of Rapid Fire, results MAY surprise you
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Complaining about archer damage? Cry me a river. This is what we dealt with IF we could actually get shots away b4 the patch.
1. Take a shot at a tank with 2000 hps and do about 175 damage if he does not have a shield. Then the tank comes and kills you.
2. Take a shot at a caster .../face nuke, nuke, nuke dead.
That is the damage archers did. It sucked. We got killed all the time because we did not have the defence to stand in vs virtually any class. So now you guys have to worry about us. Tough break.
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vn_Briarsprout
Posts: 1,152
Registered: Oct 01
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Date Posted:
6/4 7:33am
Subject: RE: Detailed logs of Rapid Fire, results MAY surprise you
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"This is where archers should have been from the beginning. DPS may need an adjustment if its truely a bug, but even if its fixed, I feel rapid fire will still help archers out alot."
Its not the damage thats the prob. But you can pin down a support player and caster and keep the group from being functional. Also, it hastens RVR battles then. In addition, those other classes do not have fun in RVR then.
Archers should have received other more thoughtful fixes then PA+RF such as styles.
But that took too much forthought on Mythic's part. Meanwhile PBT group based classes had their abilities downed to appease the archer community.
/salutes Mythic
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Naessa 
Posts: 436
Registered: Jun 02
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Date Posted:
6/4 7:35am
Subject: RE: Detailed logs of Rapid Fire, results MAY surprise you
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I maybe wrong, but it appears your damage add isn't taking into account the reduced weapon delay caused by rapid fire. It seems as though its hitting just as strong with rapid fire on; almost like RF acts as a haste buff for DPS adds. I don't think this is what Mythic intended and is probably a bug.
And it doesn't appear you counted the add damage in your DPS average. So this would push the DPS for RF even farther than normal shots.
Interesting test, tnx for running it.
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Gidgit 50 Cave Shaman - why did my 47 aug conc pool need nerfing again?
Zhang Ziyi 50 Huntress - MLF
Maedan 50 Spiritmaster - MLF
<Purgatory> - Got Hell?
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Svartalfimposter
Posts: 1,606
Registered: May 02
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Date Posted:
6/4 7:37am
Subject: RE: Detailed logs of Rapid Fire, results MAY surprise you
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I warned you. I warned you, but would you listen? Oh nooooo...
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Mr.McLean1
Posts: 677
Registered: Dec 02
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Date Posted:
6/4 7:39am
Subject: RE: Detailed logs of Rapid Fire, results MAY surprise you
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The stuff you just mentioned made archers completely gimp. "pin down a support class". Kinda like a shield would "negate and archer" or a PBT would "make the bow useless" or QC then 3 sucessive nukes would "blow and archer to little bits every time". You guys dont know how useless the 3 classes were. The only thing we had was TS. If we were left completely alone during a fight we could do OK damage on very specific targets without PBT. Thats it. Thats all we had. So gimme a break and adjust. Just like we did for the PAST 6 FUCN MONTHS.
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Aeiedel
Posts: 629
Registered: May 02
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Date Posted:
6/4 7:41am
Subject: RE: Detailed logs of Rapid Fire, results MAY surprise you
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as has been said a miss on a faster weapon has less effect that a miss with a slow weapon in a fight, however if the data was taken over an infinitley long fight then the misses either way would be equal, however due to the fights not being infinitley long then all data should be used and that includes the points where there are misses. data can not simply be removed just because it dosen't fit the pattern.
the point about the damage add is worrying though, i see what it means about it not changing as the shots get faster, and so in that case the damage would increase as the shots got faster :S
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Aeiedel Aldaron : Level 50 Nightshade
Lucil Linelda : Level 50 Enchanter
Eilanna : Level 2x Staffshade
RvR Commander of <Celtic Fist>, Excalibur (euro)
"Not just another midget in a gimpsuit"
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tyrfiel
Posts: 817
Registered: Jul 02
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Date Posted:
6/4 7:41am
Subject: RE: Detailed logs of Rapid Fire, results MAY surprise you
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"A miss without rapid fire will hurt DPS alot more then a miss with rapid fire."
True, but normal shots aren't the only shots affected by misses. An RF miss hurts your RF DPS, too.
If, for one attack, I cause zero damage, then that zero MUST be factored into the average. My shot didn't cause damage; using the mean damage on a miss artificially inflates your RF DPS. To get a statistically accurate measurement you must count misses as zero damage and get a much, much larger sample. Six tests is a grain of sand.
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Tyrfiel :: 50 Ranger :: Grove Protector :: <The Black Company> :: Merlin
Merriweather (Firbywalker) :: Armestal (Ench) :: Shortberry (Bard)
"Cry more noob and let slip the zergs of war!" - Wm. Shakespeare. Well, sorta.
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