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Speccing and you -- A post for ALL melee classes (but mostly you, Mr SB)
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MidStealtherBlues
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1,992
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Oct '03
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Date Posted:
11/18/04 4:04pm
Subject:
RE: Speccing and you -- A post for ALL melee classes (but mostly you, Mr SB)
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What this makes me wonder about is passive defenses. I remember tons of "What does dex actually do for an SB?" posts in this forum.
Backing up just a bit, there for the longest time people seemed to think that such things as evades, blocks, and whatnot were calculated vs WS. If WS isn't that much of a factor and the deciding factor has more to do with your DEFENSIVE stat rather than your opponents OFFENSIVE potential, I can't help but wonder how many SBs are gimping themselves by not worrying about dex... Just a thought.
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UltimateDuck
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6,081
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Dec '01
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Date Posted:
11/18/04 4:33pm
Subject:
RE: Speccing and you -- A post for ALL melee classes (but mostly you, Mr SB)
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Im going to laugh if Wyrd found a "bug" in the way weaponskill is factored, everybody changes their spec thinking this is "working as intended" and the "bug" gets fixed.
Wouldnt that be classic.
My big question is, why does Mythic keep this stuff secret? As the creators of the game, should they know and post such things as combat/style formulas, growth rates, the effect stats have on melee and spell damage, swing and cast time and thinkgs like passive defense, what weaponskill/weapon damage really mean, etc...
Why does it take 3 years of testing, and retesting after changes are made to figure out how a game works? Shouldnt they tell us so we can let them know if its actualy broken? Why keep it secret?
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Insolent_Ant
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Jul '02
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Date Posted:
11/18/04 4:55pm
Subject:
RE: Speccing and you -- A post for ALL melee classes (but mostly you, Mr SB)
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Great testing Wyrd. It's nice to see that there's still secrets to be unlocked in this game. It's one of the things that I like about DAoC vs. other games, the testing environment seems to be quite well developed.
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oo_snoopy
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Date Posted:
11/18/04 5:06pm
Subject:
RE: Speccing and you -- A post for ALL melee classes (but mostly you, Mr SB)
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Wyrd, you have access to interal boards, why don't you just ask the devs?
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Tazilon
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Date Posted:
11/18/04 5:07pm
Subject:
RE: Speccing and you -- A post for ALL melee classes (but mostly you, Mr SB)
- Date Edited:
11/18/04 5:10pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Tazilon
|
Mythic game devs play God and create the world in which our toons live. Just as we don't get an "owners manual" to tell us how physics work in our real life universe, our toons do not an owners manual to explain how the more intricate details of their world works. Such is life - in real life or DAOC.
The more scholarly and motivated people will seek knowledge and discover truths to be passed onto others.
Just as we sometimes pursue the wrong paths in real life, for example placing lard or fat on a burn was once considered the best way to treat it - the world as once considered flat by the educated amongst us - we will also wakl wrong paths in DAOC. Many of us apparently incorrectly understood how WS and speccing high in our main wep lines worked.
Along comes Wyrd and some other people previously mentioned for posting earlier, not as well read tests who tested the current paradigm and found it false.
This is how we advance both in game and in real life.
The question now becomes - who will be the next to step up, grab a thought, pursue it and explain another great mystery about this fantasy world we reside in?
Well done Wyrd and all the others of you who posted tests with similar theories in mind but many of us failed to notice.
/salute
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Tazilon, 50NS, 10.10.5 Tintagel {Lions of Lamfhota}
We're mad and we aren't going to take it anymore.
Assassins: /cancel your accounts now. Then send Mythic feedback forms and explain WHY you cancelled.
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Zyzyg
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Date Posted:
11/18/04 5:16pm
Subject:
RE: Speccing and you -- A post for ALL melee classes (but mostly you, Mr SB)
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Well said Tazilon. The exception here in this game though is that many people will leave the game out of sheer frustration because they don't understand it.
Games come and go, but you only get one life.
And on another note, it's not like anything has changed. I've had a spec similar to this for the longest time and still underperform vs. counterparts. I do remember winning many duel in Aegir, and the answer I always gave was that it was my 37 Sword spec. it was sort of sarcastic back then, but it looks prophetic now. 8-)
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DaPieman
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Date Posted:
11/18/04 5:51pm
Subject:
RE: Speccing and you -- A post for ALL melee classes (but mostly you, Mr SB)
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So if an infil specs the same way as a shadowblade (same main weapon, same LA/DW, same stealth, same envenom), he would still have more points devoted to CS. Would that prove infils are overpowered? Or does DW work on a whole different principle (I know it's a chance of swinging vs. higher base damage), and achieves damage in a different fashion, that infils would need those extra spec points? If so, wouldn't that still make them overpowered compared to nightshades?
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UltimateDuck
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Date Posted:
11/18/04 7:05pm
Subject:
RE: Speccing and you -- A post for ALL melee classes (but mostly you, Mr SB)
|
Mythic game devs play God and create the world in which our toons live. Just as we don't get an "owners manual" to tell us how physics work in our real life universe, our toons do not an owners manual to explain how the more intricate details of their world works. Such is life - in real life or DAOC.
The more scholarly and motivated people will seek knowledge and discover truths to be passed onto others.
Just as we sometimes pursue the wrong paths in real life, for example placing lard or fat on a burn was once considered the best way to treat it - the world as once considered flat by the educated amongst us - we will also wakl wrong paths in DAOC. Many of us apparently incorrectly understood how WS and speccing high in our main wep lines worked.
======================================================
Um, DAOC is a product that I purchased and pay to use, life isnt. When I give money to use a product, I think its only fair and definately expected that the creators of the product that charge me offer a full understanding on how its used. Forcing players to "test" in order to figure out simple fundamentals of the game is wrong and bad business. The test server shouldnt be used to test growth rates, spec and stat formulas and things of that nature. It should be used to test patches, expansions and specs for play styles.
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tracyfearson
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Date Posted:
11/18/04 8:00pm
Subject:
RE: Speccing and you -- A post for ALL melee classes (but mostly you, Mr SB)
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"Doesnt matter, associative property of multiplication:
Damage * LA Penalty * ToA Damage Bonus = Damage * ToA Damage Bonus * LA Penalty
*** Insert BS biasing data to prove your point here ***"
You know, you absolutely refuse to admit that you are wrong.
I have a newsflash for you......
INFILTRATORS HAVE MORE SPEC POINTS THEN SBLADES
More spec points = higher spec
Higher spec = more damage
Mythic did the biasing by giving infiltrators more spec points. It is therefor perfectly correct to account for it.
Yes, the associative property will maintain the ratio but 10% increase is not equal unless the starting values are equal.
Simple example, which would you prefer......
10% interest on $100 ( works out to be $10)
or
10% interest on $1,000 ( works out to be $100)
"There is no disparity unless you bias the data incorrectly. Resists will affect different attack styles the same... again, associative property of multiplication."
Well, let look at some real game data for a moment....
*** Chat Log Opened: Thu Nov 18 20:47:01 2004
[20:47:22] @@You say, "cap damage tests"
[20:47:46] @@You say, "35+ 18 sword, 35+18 laxe, 46+7 crit"
[20:47:52] <Begin Info: Bonuses (snapshot)>
[20:47:52] Resistances
[20:47:52] Crush: +32%/+0%
[20:47:52] Slash: +25%/+0%
[20:47:52] Thrust: +18%/+0%
[20:47:52] Heat: +0%/+0%
[20:47:52] Cold: +0%/+0%
[20:47:52] Matter: +9%/+0%
[20:47:52] Body: +17%/+0%
[20:47:52] Spirit: +23%/+0%
[20:47:52] Energy: +10%/+0%
[20:47:52]
[20:47:52] Special Item Bonuses
[20:47:52] +4% to all Melee Damage
[20:47:52] +4% to all Style Damage
[20:47:52] +10% to Melee Combat Speed
[20:47:52]
[20:47:52] Realm Rank Bonuses
[20:47:52] +7 to ALL Specs
[20:47:52]
[20:47:52] Relic Bonuses
[20:47:52]
[20:47:52] Outpost Bonuses
[20:47:52] +4% Conquer Bonus
[20:47:52] - Increases all Damages
[20:47:52] - Increases all Realm Points
[20:47:52] - 3x Defending Alliance Keep
[20:47:52]
[20:47:52] Underdog Bonuses
[20:47:52] +20% to all coin gained from RvR
[20:47:52] +20% to all experience gained from RvR
[20:47:52] +20% to all realm points gained from RvR
[20:47:52] +20% to all bounty points gained from RvR
[20:47:52]
[20:47:52] Outpost Ownership Bonuses
[20:47:52] Realm Coin Bonus: 3
[20:47:52] Realm XP Bonus: 3
[20:47:52] Realm BP Bonus: 3
[20:47:52] Realm Craft Timer Bonus: 3
[20:50:05] You auto-stick cold light.
[20:50:08] You enter combat mode and target [the cold light]
[20:50:08] You attack the cold light with your sword and hit for 177 (-38) damage!
[20:50:08] The cold light seems weaker!
[20:50:08] You attack the cold light with your axe and hit for 129 (-34) damage!
[20:50:08] The cold light attacks you and you evade the blow!
[20:50:10] You attack the cold light with your sword and hit for 177 (-45) damage!
[20:50:10] You attack the cold light with your axe and hit for 129 (-34) damage!
[20:50:10] The cold light dies!
[20:50:11] You are no longer sticking your target.
[20:50:22] @@You say, "add 4% melee"
[20:50:38] You enter combat mode and target [the cold light]
[20:50:38] You attack the cold light with your sword and hit for 184 (-35) damage!
[20:50:38] You attack the cold light with your axe and hit for 135 (-28) damage!
[20:50:38] You critical hit for an additional 47 damage!
[20:50:40] The cold light attacks you and you evade the blow!
[20:50:41] You attack the cold light with your sword and hit for 184 (-39) damage!
[20:50:41] The cold light dies!
[20:50:42] You are no longer sticking your target.
177 main, 129 offhand cap no %melee.
184 main, 135 offhand cap 4%melee
3.95 % increase main, 4.65% increase offhand
[20:51:37] @@You say, "style tests with 4% style bonus, 4.1 delay mainhand, TS lefthand, 185 quick"
[20:51:39] You auto-stick flurry.
[20:51:43] You enter combat mode and target [the flurry]
[20:51:43] You prepare to perform a Doublefrost!
[20:51:43] You perform your Doublefrost perfectly. (+172)
[20:51:43] You attack the flurry with your sword and hit for 317 (-41) damage!
[20:51:43] You attack the flurry with your axe and hit for 135 (-20) damage!
[20:51:44] The flurry attacks you and misses!
[20:51:45] You prepare to perform a Doublefrost!
[20:51:46] You perform your Doublefrost perfectly. (+174)
[20:51:46] You attack the flurry with your sword and hit for 317 (-42) damage!
[20:51:46] The flurry dies!
[20:51:46] You are no longer sticking your target.
[20:51:49] You auto-stick flurry.
[20:51:51] You enter combat mode and target [the flurry]
[20:51:51] You prepare to perform a Polar Rift!
[20:51:52] You perform your Polar Rift perfectly. (+137)
[20:51:52] You attack the flurry with your sword and hit for 295 (-36) damage!
[20:51:52] You attack the flurry with your axe and hit for 135 (-17) damage!
[20:51:52] A vampiric mist is called forth from beyond.
[20:51:52] Your vampiric mist attacks the flurry and hits for 40 (-4) damage!
[20:51:52] The flurry attacks you and you evade the blow!
[20:51:53] You prepare to perform a Polar Rift!
[20:51:54] You perform your Polar Rift perfectly. (+146)
[20:51:54] You attack the flurry with your sword and hit for 295 (-39) damage!
[20:51:54] You critical hit for an additional 253 damage!
[20:51:54] The flurry dies!
[20:51:55] You are no longer sticking your target.
[20:52:07] You auto-stick flurry.
[20:52:10] You enter combat mode and target [the flurry]
[20:52:10] You prepare to perform a Polar Rift!
[20:52:11] You perform your Polar Rift perfectly. (+157)
[20:52:11] You attack the flurry with your sword and hit for 295 (-42) damage!
[20:52:11] You attack the flurry with your axe and hit for 135 (-21) damage!
[20:52:12] The flurry attacks you and you evade the blow!
[20:52:12] You prepare to perform a Polar Rift!
[20:52:14] You perform your Polar Rift perfectly. (+169)
[20:52:14] You attack the flurry with your sword and hit for 295 (-45) damage!
[20:52:14] You critical hit for an additional 238 damage!
[20:52:14] The flurry dies!
[20:52:14] You are no longer sticking your target.
[20:52:17] cold light is too far away to auto-stick!
[20:52:29] You auto-stick cold light.
[20:52:30] You are no longer sticking your target.
[20:52:34] (Region) You have left Liten Tre Grove.
[20:52:35] You auto-stick flurry.
[20:52:37] You enter combat mode and target [the flurry]
[20:52:37] You prepare to perform a Garrote!
[20:52:37] You perform your Garrote perfectly. (+206)
[20:52:37] You attack the flurry with your sword and hit for 312 (-50) damage!
[20:52:37] You critical hit for an additional 171 damage!
[20:52:37] You attack the flurry with your axe and hit for 135 (-20) damage!
[20:52:37] The flurry dies!
[20:52:38] You are no longer sticking your target.
Hmm, appears garrotte has a lower cap then doublefrost.
312 garrotte cap amd 317 doublefrost cap.
[20:52:54] You auto-stick cold light.
[20:52:57] You enter combat mode and target [the cold light]
[20:52:57] You prepare to perform a Garrote!
[20:52:57] You perform your Garrote perfectly. (+244)
[20:52:57] You attack the cold light with your sword and hit for 309 (-91) damage!
[20:52:57] You attack the cold light with your axe and hit for 135 (-33) damage!
[20:52:57] The cold light dies!
Hmm, 309 cap, this is a lower style cap then on the flurry.
What caused the cap to change? AF of the target maybe?
[20:52:58] You are no longer sticking your target.
[20:53:00] You auto-stick chiseler.
[20:53:02] You enter combat mode and target [the chiseler]
[20:53:02] You prepare to perform a Garrote!
[20:53:02] You perform your Garrote perfectly. (+162)
[20:53:02] You attack the chiseler with your sword and hit for 309 damage!
[20:53:02] You critical hit for an additional 207 damage!
[20:53:02] You attack the chiseler with your axe and hit for 135 damage!
[20:53:02] The chiseler dies!
[20:53:03] You are no longer sticking your target.
[20:53:24] You auto-stick cold light.
[20:53:27] You enter combat mode and target [the cold light]
[20:53:27] You prepare to perform a Garrote!
[20:53:27] You perform your Garrote perfectly. (+192)
[20:53:27] You attack the cold light with your sword and hit for 309 (-71) damage!
[20:53:27] You attack the cold light with your axe and hit for 135 (-33) damage!
[20:53:27] The cold light dies!
[20:53:27] You are no longer sticking your target.
[20:53:38] No enemy target in range.
[20:53:46] You auto-stick chiseler.
[20:53:50] You enter combat mode and target [the chiseler]
[20:53:50] You prepare to perform a Doublefrost!
[20:53:50] You perform your Doublefrost perfectly. (+224)
[20:53:50] You attack the chiseler with your sword and hit for 314 damage!
[20:53:50] The chiseler seems weaker!
[20:53:50] You attack the chiseler with your axe and hit for 135 damage!
[20:53:50] The chiseler attacks you and misses!
[20:53:51] You prepare to perform a Doublefrost!
[20:53:52] You perform your Doublefrost perfectly. (+245)
[20:53:52] You attack the chiseler with your sword and hit for 314 damage!
[20:53:52] The chiseler dies!
[20:53:53] You are no longer sticking your target.
[20:54:03] (Region) You have left Snoslette Pass.
[20:54:03] You auto-stick chiseler.
[20:54:05] You enter combat mode and target [the chiseler]
[20:54:05] You prepare to perform a Garrote!
[20:54:05] You perform your Garrote perfectly. (+177)
[20:54:05] You attack the chiseler with your sword and hit for 309 damage!
[20:54:05] You attack the chiseler with your axe and hit for 135 damage!
[20:54:05] A vampiric mist is called forth from beyond.
[20:54:05] The chiseler begins moving more slowly!
[20:54:05] Your vampiric mist attacks the chiseler and hits for 59 damage!
[20:54:06] The chiseler attacks you and you evade the blow!
[20:54:06] You prepare to perform a Achilles Heel!
[20:54:07] You perform your Achilles Heel perfectly. (+296)
[20:54:07] You attack the chiseler with your sword and hit for 352 damage!
[20:54:07] The chiseler dies!
[20:57:29] @@You say, "boost crit 1 level"
[20:57:45] You spend 47 points and specialize further in Critical Strike
[20:57:45] You have 276 specialization points left this level.
[21:00:00] You enter combat mode and target [the cold light]
[21:00:00] You prepare to perform a Garrote!
[21:00:00] You perform your Garrote perfectly. (+183)
[21:00:00] You attack the cold light with your sword and hit for 310 (-68) damage!
[21:00:00] The cold light seems weaker!
[21:00:00] You attack the cold light with your axe and hit for 135 (-37) damage!
[21:00:00] You critical hit for an additional 64 damage!
[21:00:00] The cold light begins moving more slowly!
[21:00:01] The cold light attacks you and you evade the blow!
[21:00:02] You prepare to perform a Achilles Heel!
[21:00:03] You perform your Achilles Heel perfectly. (+241)
[21:00:03] You attack the cold light with your sword and hit for 354 (-75) damage!
[21:00:03] The cold light dies!
[21:00:03] You are no longer sticking your target.
[21:00:31] (Region) You have left Liten Tre Grove.
[21:00:33] You auto-stick chiseler.
[21:00:36] You enter combat mode and target [the chiseler]
[21:00:36] You prepare to perform a Garrote!
[21:00:36] You perform your Garrote perfectly. (+177)
[21:00:36] You attack the chiseler with your sword and hit for 310 damage!
[21:00:36] You attack the chiseler with your axe and hit for 135 damage!
[21:00:36] A vampiric mist is called forth from beyond.
[21:00:36] The chiseler begins moving more slowly!
[21:00:36] Your vampiric mist attacks the chiseler and hits for 34 damage!
[21:00:37] (Region) You have entered Snoslette Pass.
[21:00:38] You prepare to perform a Achilles Heel!
[21:00:38] The chiseler attacks you and you evade the blow!
[21:00:39] You perform your Achilles Heel perfectly. (+272)
[21:00:39] You attack the chiseler with your sword and hit for 354 damage!
[21:00:39] The chiseler dies!
[21:00:39] You are no longer sticking your target.
Garotte cap went up by 1 and achilles heal went up by 2.
[21:03:58] You target [Gunnolf]
[21:03:58] You examine Gunnolf. He is friendly and trains members of the Shadowblade class.
[21:03:58] @@Gunnolf says, "Hello Draultwo. Would you like to do some training?"
[21:04:03] You spend 36 points and specialize further in Sword
[21:04:03] You have 240 specialization points left this level.
[21:04:10] @@You say, "1 train of sword"
[21:05:51] You auto-stick cold light.
[21:05:55] You enter combat mode and target [the cold light]
[21:05:55] You prepare to perform a Garrote!
[21:05:55] You perform your Garrote perfectly. (+242)
[21:05:55] You attack the cold light with your sword and hit for 310 (-89) damage!
[21:05:55] You attack the cold light with your axe and hit for 135 (-31) damage!
[21:05:55] The cold light begins moving more slowly!
[21:05:57] The cold light attacks you and misses!
[21:05:57] You prepare to perform a Garrote!
[21:05:58] You perform your Garrote perfectly. (+238)
[21:05:58] You attack the cold light with your sword and hit for 310 (-88) damage!
[21:05:58] The cold light dies!
[21:05:58] You are no longer sticking your target.
[21:06:05] (Region) You have left Liten Tre Grove.
[21:06:09] (Region) You have entered Snoslette Pass.
[21:06:12] You auto-stick chiseler.
[21:06:15] You enter combat mode and target [the chiseler]
[21:06:15] You prepare to perform a Garrote!
[21:06:15] You perform your Garrote perfectly. (+188)
[21:06:15] You attack the chiseler with your sword and hit for 310 damage!
[21:06:15] You attack the chiseler with your axe and hit for 135 damage!
[21:06:15] The chiseler begins moving more slowly!
[21:06:16] The chiseler attacks you and misses!
[21:06:16] You prepare to perform a Achilles Heel!
[21:06:18] You perform your Achilles Heel perfectly. (+252)
[21:06:18] You attack the chiseler with your sword and hit for 354 damage!
[21:06:18] The chiseler dies!
No change in mainhand or offhand.
[21:08:17] You target [Gunnolf]
[21:08:17] You examine Gunnolf. He is friendly and trains members of the Shadowblade class.
[21:08:17] @@Gunnolf says, "Hello Draultwo. Would you like to do some training?"
[21:08:21] You spend 36 points and specialize further in Left Axe
[21:08:21] You have 204 specialization points left this level.
[21:08:35] @@You say, "+1 leftaxe"
[21:10:13] You auto-stick cold light.
[21:10:16] You enter combat mode and target [the cold light]
[21:10:16] You prepare to perform a Doublefrost!
[21:10:16] You perform your Doublefrost perfectly. (+204)
[21:10:16] You attack the cold light with your sword and hit for 315 (-74) damage!
[21:10:16] You attack the cold light with your axe and hit for 135 (-36) damage!
[21:10:16] The cold light dies!
[21:10:16] You are no longer sticking your target.
[21:10:23] You auto-stick flurry.
[21:10:24] You enter combat mode and target [the flurry]
[21:10:24] You prepare to perform a Doublefrost!
[21:10:25] You perform your Doublefrost perfectly. (+212)
[21:10:25] You attack the flurry with your sword and hit for 319 (-50) damage!
[21:10:25] You critical hit for an additional 293 damage!
[21:10:25] The flurry dies!
[21:10:25] You are no longer sticking your target.
[21:10:30] You auto-stick flurry.
[21:10:31] You enter combat mode and target [the flurry]
[21:10:31] You prepare to perform a Doublefrost!
[21:10:31] You perform your Doublefrost perfectly. (+179)
[21:10:31] You attack the flurry with your sword and hit for 319 (-43) damage!
[21:10:31] You attack the flurry with your axe and hit for 135 (-19) damage!
[21:10:33] The flurry attacks you and you evade the blow!
[21:10:34] You prepare to perform a Doublefrost!
[21:10:34] You perform your Doublefrost perfectly. (+196)
[21:10:34] You attack the flurry with your sword and hit for 319 (-47) damage!
[21:10:34] You critical hit for an additional 149 damage!
[21:10:34] The flurry dies!
Mainhand style cap went up by 2 vs flurry, 1 vs other targets.
[21:10:34] You are no longer sticking your target.
[21:10:38] (Region) You have left Liten Tre Grove.
[21:10:43] You auto-stick chiseler.
[21:10:43] (Region) You have entered Snoslette Pass.
[21:10:44] (Region) You have left Snoslette Pass.
[21:10:44] You enter combat mode and target [the chiseler]
[21:10:44] You prepare to perform a Doublefrost!
[21:10:45] You perform your Doublefrost perfectly. (+200)
[21:10:45] You attack the chiseler with your sword and hit for 315 damage!
[21:10:45] You attack the chiseler with your axe and hit for 135 damage!
[21:10:45] You critical hit for an additional 120 damage!
[21:10:45] The chiseler attacks you and you evade the blow!
[21:10:47] You attack the chiseler with your sword and hit for 185 damage!
[21:10:47] The chiseler dies!
[21:10:47] You must have a target for your next attack style!
[21:10:47] You are no longer sticking your target.
[21:10:52] (Region) You have entered Snoslette Pass.
[21:10:55] You auto-stick chiseler.
[21:10:57] You enter combat mode and target [the chiseler]
[21:10:57] You prepare to perform a Garrote!
[21:10:58] You perform your Garrote perfectly. (+167)
[21:10:58] You attack the chiseler with your sword and hit for 311 damage!
[21:10:58] You attack the chiseler with your axe and hit for 135 damage!
[21:10:58] The chiseler begins moving more slowly!
[21:10:58] The chiseler attacks you and misses!
[21:10:59] You prepare to perform a Achilles Heel!
[21:11:00] You perform your Achilles Heel perfectly. (+274)
[21:11:00] You attack the chiseler with your sword and hit for 355 damage!
[21:11:00] The chiseler dies!
[21:11:00] You are no longer sticking your target.
[21:11:54] (Region) You have left Snoslette Pass.
[21:11:55] You target [the chiseler]
[21:11:55] You examine the chiseler. It is neutral towards you.
[21:11:56] You auto-stick chiseler.
[21:11:59] You enter combat mode and target [the chiseler]
[21:11:59] You prepare to perform a Doublefrost!
[21:11:59] You perform your Doublefrost perfectly. (+198)
[21:11:59] You attack the chiseler with your sword and hit for 315 damage!
[21:11:59] You attack the chiseler with your axe and hit for 135 damage!
[21:12:01] The chiseler attacks you and you evade the blow!
[21:12:01] You prepare to perform a Doublefrost!
[21:12:02] You perform your Doublefrost perfectly. (+144)
[21:12:02] You attack the chiseler with your sword and hit for 315 damage!
[21:12:02] The chiseler dies!
[21:12:02] You are no longer sticking your target.
[21:13:32] You auto-stick cold light.
[21:13:35] You enter combat mode and target [the cold light]
[21:13:35] You attack the cold light with your sword and hit for 185 (-50) damage!
[21:13:35] You attack the cold light with your axe and hit for 135 (-37) damage!
[21:13:37] The cold light attacks you and you evade the blow!
[21:13:38] You attack the cold light with your sword and hit for 185 (-46) damage!
[21:13:38] You critical hit for an additional 18 damage!
[21:13:38] The cold light dies!
[21:13:38] You are no longer sticking your target.
[21:13:50] (Region) You have entered Snoslette Pass.
[21:13:53] You auto-stick chiseler.
[21:13:54] You enter combat mode and target [the chiseler]
[21:13:54] You attack the chiseler with your sword and hit for 185 damage!
[21:13:54] You attack the chiseler with your axe and hit for 135 damage!
[21:13:55] The chiseler attacks you and you evade the blow!
[21:13:57] You attack the chiseler with your sword and hit for 185 damage!
[21:13:57] You attack the chiseler with your axe and hit for 135 damage!
[21:13:57] The chiseler dies!
[21:13:57] A vampiric mist is called forth from beyond.
[21:16:02] @@You say, "+1 leftaxe"
[21:16:03] You target [Gunnolf]
[21:16:03] You examine Gunnolf. He is friendly and trains members of the Shadowblade class.
[21:16:03] @@Gunnolf says, "Hello Draultwo. Would you like to do some training?"
[21:16:07] You spend 37 points and specialize further in Left Axe
[21:16:07] You have 167 specialization points left this level.
[21:17:49] You enter combat mode and target [the flurry]
[21:17:49] You prepare to perform a Doublefrost!
[21:17:49] You perform your Doublefrost perfectly. (+213)
[21:17:49] You attack the flurry with your sword and hit for 321 (-50) damage!
[21:17:49] You attack the flurry with your axe and hit for 136 (-17) damage!
[21:17:50] The flurry attacks you and misses!
[21:17:51] You prepare to perform a Doublefrost!
[21:17:52] You perform your Doublefrost perfectly. (+192)
[21:17:52] You attack the flurry with your sword and hit for 321 (-46) damage!
[21:17:52] The flurry dies!
[21:17:52] You are no longer sticking your target.
[21:17:58] You auto-stick chiseler.
[21:18:03] You enter combat mode and target [the chiseler]
[21:18:03] You prepare to perform a Doublefrost!
[21:18:03] You perform your Doublefrost perfectly. (+179)
[21:18:03] You attack the chiseler with your sword and hit for 317 damage!
[21:18:03] You attack the chiseler with your axe and hit for 136 damage!
[21:18:03] A vampiric mist is called forth from beyond.
[21:18:03] Your vampiric mist attacks the chiseler and hits for 39 damage!
[21:18:04] The chiseler attacks you and misses!
[21:18:05] You prepare to perform a Doublefrost!
[21:18:06] You perform your Doublefrost perfectly. (+162)
[21:18:06] You attack the chiseler with your sword and hit for 317 damage!
[21:18:06] The chiseler dies!
[21:18:06] You are no longer sticking your target.
[21:18:25] (Region) You have left Liten Tre Grove.
[21:18:26] You target [the chiseler]
[21:18:26] You examine the chiseler. It is neutral towards you.
[21:18:26] You auto-stick chiseler.
[21:18:30] You enter combat mode and target [the chiseler]
[21:18:30] You prepare to perform a Garrote!
[21:18:31] You perform your Garrote perfectly. (+165)
[21:18:31] You attack the chiseler with your sword and hit for 312 damage!
[21:18:31] You attack the chiseler with your axe and hit for 136 damage!
[21:18:31] The chiseler begins moving more slowly!
[21:18:31] The chiseler attacks you and you evade the blow!
[21:18:32] You prepare to perform a Achilles Heel!
[21:18:34] You perform your Achilles Heel perfectly. (+255)
[21:18:34] You attack the chiseler with your sword and hit for 356 damage!
[21:18:34] The chiseler dies!
[21:18:34] You are no longer sticking your target.
[21:19:12] @@You say, "base damage with +4%"
[21:19:13] You auto-stick cold light.
[21:19:14] You are no longer sticking your target.
[21:19:18] You auto-stick chiseler.
[21:19:19] (Region) You have entered Liten Tre Grove.
[21:19:20] You enter combat mode and target [the chiseler]
[21:19:20] You attack the chiseler with your sword and hit for 185 damage!
[21:19:20] You attack the chiseler with your axe and hit for 136 damage!
[21:19:20] A vampiric mist is called forth from beyond.
[21:19:20] Your vampiric mist attacks the chiseler and hits for 36 damage!
[21:19:22] The chiseler attacks you and misses!
[21:19:23] You attack the chiseler with your sword and hit for 185 damage!
[21:19:23] You attack the chiseler with your axe and hit for 136 damage!
[21:19:23] The chiseler dies!
With 4% melee and 4% style
mainhand base cap: 185
mainhand garrotte style cap: 312
style add: 127
offhand cap: 136
[21:19:58] @@You say, "base dmage no bonus"
[21:20:00] You enter combat mode and target [the chiseler]
[21:20:00] You attack the chiseler with your sword and hit for 178 damage!
[21:20:00] You attack the chiseler with your axe and hit for 131 damage!
[21:20:00] The chiseler attacks you and you evade the blow!
[21:20:02] You attack the chiseler with your sword and hit for 178 damage!
[21:20:02] You attack the chiseler with your axe and hit for 131 damage!
[21:20:02] The chiseler dies!
[21:20:03] You are no longer sticking your target.
[21:20:17] @@You say, "style caps no bonus"
[21:20:17] You auto-stick chiseler.
[21:20:20] You enter combat mode and target [the chiseler]
[21:20:20] You prepare to perform a Doublefrost!
[21:20:20] You perform your Doublefrost perfectly. (+150)
[21:20:20] You attack the chiseler with your sword and hit for 303 damage!
[21:20:20] You attack the chiseler with your axe and hit for 131 damage!
[21:20:21] The chiseler attacks you and misses!
[21:20:22] You prepare to perform a Doublefrost!
[21:20:23] You perform your Doublefrost perfectly. (+144)
[21:20:23] You attack the chiseler with your sword and hit for 303 damage!
[21:20:23] The chiseler dies!
[21:20:23] You are no longer sticking your target.
[21:20:33] You auto-stick chiseler.
[21:20:35] You enter combat mode and target [the chiseler]
[21:20:35] You prepare to perform a Polar Rift!
[21:20:35] You perform your Polar Rift perfectly. (+138)
[21:20:35] You attack the chiseler with your sword and hit for 279 damage!
[21:20:35] You attack the chiseler with your axe and hit for 131 damage!
[21:20:35] The chiseler attacks you and you evade the blow!
[21:20:36] You prepare to perform a Polar Rift!
[21:20:37] You perform your Polar Rift perfectly. (+155)
[21:20:37] You attack the chiseler with your sword and hit for 279 damage!
[21:20:37] The chiseler dies!
[21:20:38] You are no longer sticking your target.
[21:20:44] You auto-stick chiseler.
[21:20:47] You enter combat mode and target [the chiseler]
[21:20:47] You prepare to perform a Garrote!
[21:20:47] You perform your Garrote perfectly. (+188)
[21:20:47] You attack the chiseler with your sword and hit for 298 damage!
[21:20:47] You attack the chiseler with your axe and hit for 131 damage!
[21:20:47] The chiseler begins moving more slowly!
[21:20:47] The chiseler attacks you and misses!
[21:20:48] You prepare to perform a Achilles Heel!
[21:20:49] You perform your Achilles Heel perfectly. (+244)
[21:20:49] You attack the chiseler with your sword and hit for 342 damage!
[21:20:49] The chiseler dies!
*** Chat Log Closed: Thu Nov 18 21:20:57 2004
With 0% melee and 0% style
mainhand base cap: 178
mainhand garrotte style cap: 298
style add: 120
offhand cap: 131
Recap:
With 4% melee and 4% style
mainhand base cap: 185
mainhand garrotte style cap: 312
style add: 127
offhand cap: 136
Increase %:
mainhand base cap: 3.93%
mainhand garrotte style cap: 4.70%
style add: 5.8%
offhand cap: 3.81%
Actual increase:
mainhand base cap: 7
mainhand garrotte style cap: 14
style add: 7
offhand cap: 5
Conclusions:
As stated, % melee and %style increase damage by adding to damage a %of base damage to the melee or style portion of the damage.
The formula often used for weapon damage caps is:
Damage Cap = DPS * SPD * 3 * (1 + (SPD - 2) * .03)
So, damage cap should be: 16.5 * 4.1 * 3 * (1 + (4.1 - 2) * .03) = 215.7
This formula is clearly wrong. The leftaxe reduction clearly impacts damage caps.
55 modified leftaxe should limit cap to 81.2% of max, so 215.7 * .812 = 175.18
Actual was 178 which is close enough for the difference to be due to when/how rounding is done.
As the %melee and %style increases are determined by the base damage after it is reduced for the leftaxe reduction, it is impossible for sblades to get the same damage increase from these modifiers as infiltrators or nshades. In fact, the lower the leftaxe spec the lower the increase in damage from these modifiers.
Impact on balance:
Lets look at some specs:
Sblade realm rank 8 with +18 to all specs
32 envenom
32 stealth
33 sword (51 modified)
35 leftaxe (53 modified)
44 crit (62 modified)
An inf would be able to spec:
32 envenom
32 stealth
33 slash (51 modified)
46 DW (64 modified)
44 crit (62 modified)
So, no TOA bonus using base damage cap demonstrated above.........
Sblade base DPS:
mainhand: 178 * .8052 = 143.33
lefthand: 178 * .8052 = 143.33
Total: 286.66
Infiltrator base DPS:
mainhand: 178
offhand: 178 * .6716 = 119.54
Total: 297.54
Disparity: 10.88
Now, add in the 10% melee and 10% style TOA bonus
(note: am not calculating the critical strike style damage as it should be the same prior to TOA bonus as they are the same crit spec)
Sblade base DPS:
mainhand: 143.33 * 10% = 14.33, so final base damage is: 157.66
lefthand: 143.33 * 1.1 = 157.66
Total: 315.32
Style damage will increase by an additional 14.33
Total post TOA base damage + %style increase: 329.65
Infiltrator base DPS:
mainhand: 178 * 10% = 17.8, so final base damage is: 195.8
offhand: 195.8 * .6716 = 131.50
Total: 327.3
Style damage will increase by an additional 17.8
Total post TOA base damage + %style increase: 345.1
Disparity: 15.45
15.45 is a 42% increase in the damage advantage from spec points simply due to TOA bonuses.
Still think it is "BS biasing data to prove your point"?
The damage increases from TOA should be done like style bonus and added outside of the leftaxe reduction.
Also, please note that the cap on a flurry was higher then on the other mobs. I know of no explaination for this. Clearly there was some factor impacting the cap damage.
Doublefrost has a higher style cap then garrotte.
I am curious to know what the style cap is for dual shadows. Tested with Golden spear would be nice as I think it is the same delay between the realms.
-----signature-----
Draul lv 50 shadowblade RR 9
Gort lv 50 berzerker, Quait 50 valkyrie
Haag lv 50 shaman, Tirc lv 50 hunter
Odep lv 50 bonedancer, Real lv 50 runemaster
Jorumgand Tristan
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Bjorvald
collection | wishlist
Posts:
7,040
Registered:
Apr '02
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Date Posted:
11/18/04 8:20pm
Subject:
RE: Speccing and you -- A post for ALL melee classes (but mostly you, Mr SB)
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Very nice work Tracy. I hope you and Wyrd can find a better way of working/collaborating on this. I know you both want the same thing - fairness in how LA works vs. CD/DW.
-----signature-----
Bjorvald 9lx healer
Blinknone, various toons on classic
GANKED AGAIN
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Wiro_the_SB
collection | wishlist
Posts:
7,441
Registered:
Sep '03
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Date Posted:
11/18/04 8:36pm
Subject:
RE: Speccing and you -- A post for ALL melee classes (but mostly you, Mr SB)
- Date Edited:
11/18/04 8:36pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Wiro_the_SB
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"if your hitting for less then 100 with 337, your a liar. my garrotes do 150+ easily, and i only have 10 more str atm. if its an inf and i have my heater out, 190 is a low hit :/"
Depends on what you are hitting. I hit a rr5 scout with a regular slash weapon for 98 mainhand with 349 str tonight.
Frankly, thanks for all the testing but I give up.
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Taktikool1
collection | wishlist
Posts:
750
Registered:
Nov '04
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Date Posted:
11/18/04 8:46pm
Subject:
RE: Speccing and you -- A post for ALL melee classes (but mostly you, Mr SB)
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"I know you both want the same thing - fairness in how LA works vs. CD/DW."
i don't think i've seen Wyrd post saying he wants fairness at all  according to him, it is fair....perfectly fair
but why are SB's losing so many fights and the infils they're fighting winning so many fights? it sure as hell isn't 50/50, which is what i would be 100% happy with 
-----signature-----
RR6 SB
ML9
Shadowgimp
your post count pales in comparison to my sperm count.
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wyrd77
collection | wishlist
Posts:
6,711
Registered:
Oct '01
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Date Posted:
11/18/04 9:12pm
Subject:
RE: Speccing and you -- A post for ALL melee classes (but mostly you, Mr SB)
- Date Edited:
11/18/04 9:18pm (2 edits total)
Edited By:
wyrd77
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LA and DW/CD mechanics are balanced. If anything LA has a slight advantage due to artificial haste. Jesus christ I sound like a broken record.
Now, if you want to compare SB's vs Infs, thats a whole different subject.
You said that DW/CD was better than LA because it did more damage. I proved it did not. Yes, *IF* an infiltrator specs higher in DW than a SB does in LA, then that Inf will have a very slightly higher DPS. However, this is balanced (theoretically) by LA's higher DPS due to artificial haste in addition to the SB's higher HP's. *shrug* Again, its a much more in depth subject to compare a SB to an Inf. One that I am not getting into here.
In fact, Im done talking about DW/CD mechanics and how SB's compare to Infiltrators. I didnt start this post for that reason. I started it so people could better understand how speccing works so they can make the most out of their toons.
"This formula is clearly wrong. The leftaxe reduction clearly impacts damage caps."
No shit dick tracy.
Want to see damage caps? See DPS Calc in sig
W
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Retired
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Taktikool1
collection | wishlist
Posts:
750
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Date Posted:
11/18/04 9:41pm
Subject:
RE: Speccing and you -- A post for ALL melee classes (but mostly you, Mr SB)
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so....even though i'm swinging my two 4.0 spd weapons at 1.8seconds, you're saying i'll do more damage than an infil if i use a 2.4speed offhand?
do you even play this game? or do you sit back and play with your calculator all day and post about it?
i'm telling you all the math that you do means nothing as soon as you set foot in new frontiers, obviously if your math was correct, then SB's would be doing just fine....
i really don't mean to get at you but i seriously don't think you know what you're talking about, at least do tests that are real and by real i mean do tests that go along the exact same lines we have to go by when we're out fighting in rvr, cuz thats what this game is about man
or is your reaver on gaheris? in which case i could see how all your tests make sense
-----signature-----
RR6 SB
ML9
Shadowgimp
your post count pales in comparison to my sperm count.
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jesper80
collection | wishlist
Posts:
718
Registered:
Jan '02
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Date Posted:
11/18/04 10:59pm
Subject:
RE: Speccing and you -- A post for ALL melee classes (but mostly you, Mr SB)
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>>so....even though i'm swinging my two 4.0 spd weapons at 1.8seconds, you're saying i'll do more damage than an infil if i use a 2.4speed offhand? <<
You will do more damage using 4.0/2.4 than using 4.0/4.0. More than an inf? No one can answer but you sure have better chance by going 4.0/2.4 instead of 4.0/4.0.
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