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Topic:
Full set of charts for hib style lines as of 11/9 pendragon
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Nalekried
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Date Posted:
11/9/07 3:17am
Subject:
Full set of charts for hib style lines as of 11/9 pendragon
- Date Edited:
11/9/07 3:27am (4 edits total)
Edited By:
Nalekried
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Seems as good a place to throw this as any, even though some of this isn't guardian related. Things in blue I am not sure if they were changed in a previous patch and the info is outdated, or if they were accidentally changed with no note this patch. Have to test on live to see.
Blades - http://i8.tinypic.com/8ehnukx.gif
Blunt - http://i8.tinypic.com/8a1hso0.gif
Pierce - http://i8.tinypic.com/6s98twp.gif
LW - http://i19.tinypic.com/7ypho2w.gif
Spear - http://i11.tinypic.com/85w8ya0.gif
Scythe - http://i3.tinypic.com/6uhegx2.gif
Celtic Dual - http://i3.tinypic.com/82m45xd.gif
Critical Strike - http://i11.tinypic.com/6opbejl.gif
Class specific style versions in each line were sampled from:
Hero - LW/Spear
Blademaster - CD/Blunt
Valewalker - Scythe
Nightshade - CS/Blades - the CD style is a 50af debuff instead of the 100af one Blademasters get
Vampiir - Pierce
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Arranox
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Date Posted:
11/9/07 8:11am
Subject:
RE: Full set of charts for hib style lines as of 11/9 pendragon
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Wow, seems that VWs Growth rates got secretly nerfed. heh
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Nalekried
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Date Posted:
11/9/07 3:35pm
Subject:
RE: Full set of charts for hib style lines as of 11/9 pendragon
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I am being told the GRs for Vwer styles have been reduced in a patch awhile ago. The effects are incorrect on the Vwer sheet, some of the delves on dmg add/bleeds are a little higher than I put on the sheet now (I copied those since the delves are useless for effects on most of those styles).
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Daelin_Hvall
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Date Posted:
11/9/07 5:34pm
Subject:
RE: Full set of charts for hib style lines as of 11/9 pendragon
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Just an fyi - on the Critical Strike Spreadsheet - Creeping Death is listed as a 9 second stun - it's actually a 7 second stun.
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deeper_tranq
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Date Posted:
11/9/07 6:41pm
Subject:
RE: Full set of charts for hib style lines as of 11/9 pendragon
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for large weapon, interesting that the rear snare is higher growth rate than the followup stun
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Kryptmotron
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Date Posted:
11/10/07 2:24pm
Subject:
RE: Full set of charts for hib style lines as of 11/9 pendragon
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Death of Spear Hero imo.
Should try to get the special line for heros something going for it, cuz right now if the patch goes live LW is better in every way.
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http://gimpchimp.etilader.com/s.php?u=Kryptmotron http://hosted.filefront.com/Phurie/ Pull up. Hop out. all in one motion. Dancin' on the hood while the car still rollin'
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Ciuld-Ishikal
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Date Posted:
11/12/07 8:17am
Subject:
RE: Full set of charts for hib style lines as of 11/9 pendragon
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thanks for all your work in assembling this information. looks like alot of classes just got easymode.
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Ciuld Ishikal
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Ciuld-Ishikal
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Date Posted:
11/12/07 10:02am
Subject:
RE: Full set of charts for hib style lines as of 11/9 pendragon
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just started looking at the 1h style lines. compared to the advanced lines they have really low damage and utility. wish Mythic would look into that. if they are going to try to make all the advanced lines have 2 style positionals, a high damage high end anytime, and 2 style reactionaries, they need to redo all the growth rates/effects.
should be something like
Frontal
1st .65 GR bleed high end
2nd .80 GR ASD med end
side
1st .75 GR Snare med end
2nd .88 stun short dur (4 sec or so) low end
rear
1st .75 GR snare med end
2nd .88 ASD low end
Taunt .60 GR tuant med end
Anytime .88 GR no effect high end
Detaunt .0 GR detaunt low end
reactionaries should all be alot higher GR than any other styles
pretty much each style line will have 2 types of reactionary, block(or evade for stealth) and parry (or evade again for stealth)
block
1st .99 GR ASD low end
2nd 1.10 GR stun short dur stun low end
parry \
1st .99 GR stun short dur low end
2nd 1.1 GR high damage bleed low end
that leaves 2 styles for special openings and/or effects
something like
target blocks .88 GR bypasses block med end
target parries .88 GR bypasses parry med end.
i know not everyone will agree with me, and that's their prerogative. i know unique styles add spice to the game, but imo the only way to balance melee is to normalize style lines. Styles should be balanced in such a way that if it has no prerequisite then it should have a penalty associated with it, i.e. anytime high damage should have a high end cost with no added effects, reactionary styles should do the most damage because they aren't spammable.
positionals should have a medium damage opener with high utility, with a high damage follow up. the key to balance is getting rid of 1 button melee lines, and giving the advantage to people that can react to a block/parry/evade and choose the appropriate style for the appropriate opening.
oh, and this coming from a shield hero FFS redo the shield line and take away anytime stuns. the shield line should be all positinals and block reactionaries, and maybe an anytime with no stun on it.
shield should be set up to have 4 sets of single style positonals/reactionaries. higher level styles having longer stuns/more damage
1st set
block .88 GR 4 sec stun low end
side .80 GR 2 sec stun med end
rear .75 GR 2 sec stun med end
2nd set
block .92 GR 6 sec stun med end
side .80 GR 4 sec stun med end
rear .75 GR 4 sec stun med end
3rd set
block .96 GR 8 sec stun med end
side .85 GR 6 sec stun med end
rear .80 GR 6 sec stun med end
4th set
block 1.0 GR 10 sec stun med end
side .90 GR 7 sec stun med end
rear .85 GR 7 sec stun med end
anytimes
anytime .75 GR no effect high end
folow up .99 GR no effect med end
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Emblurr
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Title: The Velvet Sledgehammer
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Date Posted:
11/12/07 2:37pm
Subject:
RE: Full set of charts for hib style lines as of 11/9 pendragon
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They've thrown out an aspect of the balance with the anytime styles by giving them growth rates of 0.85 to 1.00. Not every melee class is going to get these and they don't have some other style to make up for them. Gonna be fun trying to match damage them with a 0.60 anytime style or a frontal 0.75.
These classes that get these high growth anytimes can just do the circle strafe with the anytime style. No need to do positionals or reactives. It also makes it next to impossible for the enemy to do any reactives or positionals with any conistancy. I know this play is nothing new but it'll be more prevalent.
They should've capped the anytimes at 0.60 not made them into higher growth rates. The advantage of a positional or reaction style is that it should have some effect or more damage on it. The advantage of an anytime is well you can do it anytime.
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Chysil-Sherman
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Title: Zerg TL
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Date Posted:
11/12/07 3:07pm
Subject:
RE: Full set of charts for hib style lines as of 11/9 pendragon
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no one ever updated the GR on vwers since they changed around all the positionals and such. So those growth rates shown are the ones that are live currently... people just thought that VWers had 1.3 GR frontal positional... (however conflag is still OMFG pain)
same with the last 2 crit strike styles. When they added the AF debuff they slightly reduced growth rates I believe.
Thanks for the work on this
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Nalekried
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Date Posted:
11/13/07 9:16am
Subject:
RE: Full set of charts for hib style lines as of 11/9 pendragon
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Now that I have all the toons setup and the spreadsheets with the baseline, any time they make a change to the GR or end usage I can find out exactly what was changed and how much very quickly.  I am thinking of doing this for alb and mid too, but it was quite a bit of work.
I wondered what was up with crit strike, a few are different than the char planner so I guess they changed it like you said.
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Chysil-Sherman
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Title: Zerg TL
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Date Posted:
11/13/07 10:32am
Subject:
RE: Full set of charts for hib style lines as of 11/9 pendragon
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ya same with the reduced rates in VWer lines... used to be like 4th off evade style, broke up that chain and made a frontal style but reduced growth rates... char planner never showed it.
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Tympus
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Date Posted:
11/28/07 2:34pm
Subject:
RE: Full set of charts for hib style lines as of 11/9 pendragon
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/bump for goodness
and +1
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Ambriel - RR7.x Hero - GM <Mean and Hateful> Lamorak Andariel - RR7.x Sorc - GM <Erus Nex> Gareth Dread - RR5.x Minstrel - GM <Erus Nex> Gareth http://gimpchimp.etilader.com/s.php?u=Andariel AIM - Blodkai
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Meticode
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Title: Bane of VNBoards
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Date Posted:
11/28/07 3:42pm
Subject:
RE: Full set of charts for hib style lines as of 11/9 pendragon
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VW styles look the same to me as they have the last 6 months or so at least. Even though the GRs are actually lower than listed I believe.
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Kryptmotron
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Date Posted:
11/28/07 5:24pm
Subject:
RE: Full set of charts for hib style lines as of 11/9 pendragon
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Anyone got the alb/mid version of these?
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http://gimpchimp.etilader.com/s.php?u=Kryptmotron http://hosted.filefront.com/Phurie/ Pull up. Hop out. all in one motion. Dancin' on the hood while the car still rollin'
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Tympus
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Date Posted:
11/28/07 8:23pm
Subject:
RE: Full set of charts for hib style lines as of 11/9 pendragon
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I wish the herald just showed all this kind of information. I mean come on, what’s wrong with players getting the hard truth of what a styles GR is, or the End cost. And I wish it accurately reflected what was in game.
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Ambriel - RR7.x Hero - GM <Mean and Hateful> Lamorak Andariel - RR7.x Sorc - GM <Erus Nex> Gareth Dread - RR5.x Minstrel - GM <Erus Nex> Gareth http://gimpchimp.etilader.com/s.php?u=Andariel AIM - Blodkai
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