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Squeekz
()
Posts : 697
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RE: How to Gank a Warlock |
12/29/04 1:52 PM |
Having slow weapons equipped first will be worse... because the speed of those weapons determines the next time you will swing, which will be 3.9 seconds (usually) minus haste, quickness, and if they hit with both weapons gaining the haste effect, so you still have to wait a while before hitting CD...
What I would recommend is hit PA while running at him, run through him and stick, that will get your PA off, and have you at his back for CD... The only thing they could do to counter it is be ready to hit /face and blast you all the time, which I dont think anyone has the patience, attention span, or reflexes to be ready for that... so you get PA in front, CD in back, SS in back or side, then pull off side styles or whatever else you use for your PA chain... It shouldnt be that hard with some practice, I know I used to do that all the time when I was active on my shade... |
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Sheridan
(Stealthy Intellect)
Posts : 1033
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RE: How to Gank a Warlock |
12/29/04 2:22 PM |
"Wouldn't it be better to have the slow weapons initially equipped ..to front load on the PA? Then switch to faster weaps and complete the line."
You are correct ManinBlaq. However, the STUN doesn't come from PA, It comes from Creeping Death.
With a slow mainhand on your PA, without a Druid Haste buff, that is ruffly 3 seconds until you hit CD. The Warlock needs .5sec to insta DoT Lifetap you with his chambers up.
If you went with the backstab with that same weapon, you would get in one extra hit before the same response from the Warlock would happen.
I know of no other class that can cast 1 spell and kill me, like a warlock. Even my Void Eld has to cast 2 bolts to have a chance to take down 1 player, and that won't work on tanks or BD's. Coyle Sheridan - Warden Cotten Saurer - Nightshade Munnie Comyna - Enchantress The Wild Hunt |
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ManinBlaq
(Registered)
Posts : 64
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RE: How to Gank a Warlock |
12/29/04 2:45 PM |
Well ... I prefer Squeekz's post more. (I think he was a wee more optimistic)
I know of no other class that can cast 1 spell and kill me, like a warlock. Even my Void Eld has to cast 2 bolts to have a chance to take down 1 player, and that won't work on tanks or BD's.
I know it's moot point ..(death is death), but while it is a single ability, technically it's 2 separate spells.
And a single chamber on a tank isn't going to kill him either. |
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Hiwayman
(DAoC Veteran)
Posts : 3544
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RE: How to Gank a Warlock |
12/29/04 5:25 PM |
I know of no other class that can cast 1 spell and kill me, like a warlock.
Actually, thats sort of not true(sort of:P). If we're just talking about 1 on 1 here, and we should be if considering classes singular abilities rather than group contribution, then many classes that are powerful and succesful win in exactly this fashion. Let me explain that before tempers go through the roof.
ANY baseline stun class in Hibernia is capable of DD'ing a low-midlow HP opponent to death in the duration of their stun. They cast one spell that killed their enemy--the stun. Note that only 15 points invested into an RA counters this, or an insta that prevents it from happening. If it doesn't work, oftentimes it takes some fancy footwork to not die for the Hibernian mage.
ALL mez classes that have a semblance of offensive ability win the fight by winning the mez. They use it to put themselves in the position of dominance. If they are unsuccesful, they must cut and run or die in many instances.
Shield tanks live and die by the shield slam. Since they are a durable sort, they don't necessarily lose if the screw it up, but make no mistake about it. The lions share of their kills are enemies that were either immobilized until dead or heavily damaged enough without being able to answer in kind that the enemy can't overcome the damage disparity. One ability.
Archers can kill an unbuffed mage that has neglected his AF and has bladeturn down in one hit, from stealth which allows for no recourse, having the same end effect as an insta. Two and three hitting them is certainly not unheard of either, with only the second and third hits being visible.
I understand that it's a much more visible "one-hit" from the Warlock if he takes you down with one chamber, instantly. But against these other situations, you've effectively lost the fight but just haven't been able to release yet. You were dead after that first hit.
Things that counter alot of these other things also counter the Warlock. Certainly purge helps a great deal to mitigate this DoT--it's not just an anti CC tool anymore. IP is great against any frontloader, just be quick on the draw with it and it could win you the fight. Tools that allow survival of this nasty frontload will win a fight against a Warlock, and these are two of the finest examples. They aren't entirely dissimilar to other mages in this respect--they've either won or lost the fight at it's inception or slightly thereafter. Make it last longer and you win. _______________________________________________ Thanks |
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Ductape
(Registered)
Posts : 417
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RE: How to Gank a Warlock |
12/29/04 6:41 PM |
| Um yea... with my scout. if you are sitting down with no armour on and are afk with no buffs... maybe........... |
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Mayil
(THC?!)
Posts : 2495
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RE: How to Gank a Warlock |
12/29/04 6:57 PM |
| or you could get a stealther with PA/CD and have somewhat fast weps to stun them before they can nuke you |
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Vardonn
(Registered)
Posts : 320
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RE: How to Gank a Warlock |
12/29/04 8:01 PM |
hmmmm....a class that may be able to vomit out wtf overpowered damage and that many believe are very damaging 1 on 1....
I smell a nerf incoming...sorry Mids, looks like the nerf bat will be striking yet again, sucks to be you.
There is one thing that will absolutely destroy the warlock DoT.
Cure poison.
Fancy that? Better kiss some cleric/druid ass, give them a heads up, they can slam a nice heal and cure posion and basically shut down the damage from one of the warlocks (if more than 2, cross your fingers and toes and have another curer).
Screw it, you guys know the routine. class balance /= realm balance
QQ 50 Celt blade/shieldmaster 50 druid 46 bubble warden 44 Leirvik ranger of pure fun 50 Kobold savage 50 shaman 42 healer |
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Hiwayman
(DAoC Veteran)
Posts : 3544
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RE: How to Gank a Warlock |
12/29/04 8:18 PM |
Um yea... with my scout. if you are sitting down with no armour on and are afk with no buffs... maybe...........
Ok, I'll bite. What the heck is this in reference to?
_______________________________________________ Thanks |
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Bragi
(Narcissistic AFC)
Posts : 5291
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RE: How to Gank a Warlock |
12/30/04 12:14 AM |
I asked my good friend John Madden about this, and he had the following advice:
"Now ya see, the key to taking down the Warlock is simple, and just like any other caster. You've simply got to do more damage to him than he does to you. If you can keep hitting him faster than he's getting you with all his colors and explosions, then you're all set."
After having that increadibly enlightening nugget dropped on me, I've decided that the only clear answer is WoW. Because damn it, you can ride a dinosaur.
A DINOSAUR! |
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Slicerz
(Registered)
Posts : 602
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RE: How to Gank a Warlock |
12/30/04 10:39 AM |
The thing is warlocks can keep chambers up for ever, so they have no weak spot.
Even if chambers disappeared after a few mins it would help warlocks have a weak spot, in the field where they cant maintain chambers.
Also the uninteruptable primer can modify those "4sec not modifyable" cast time down to 1ish seconds...and make uninteruptable!
Most casters are good in keeps bad in open field.
Tanks the opposite.
But even if he gets jumpped by 3+ppl the warlock can almost always kill at least 1.
As a matter of fact during any engagement with 2+ chambers up he can kill 1 person near instantly, with a cast + chamber combo.
No other class is virtually garunteed a 1v1 win against any other class in any situation.
BDs or necros can take out any 1 or 2 meleers garunteed but a caster at range will eat em.
Archers can take you out from range but any tank will eat one up close.
Casters (even the often whined about hib stunners) can be interupted or closed on and killed.
If a warlock sees you, no matter the range, no matter the situation, if he wants you dead your dead. He may go down as well but no other class can garuntee a IRS of 1-1 in any situation.
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Sivas
(Registered)
Posts : 473
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RE: How to Gank a Warlock |
12/30/04 11:10 AM |
cant see them getting nerfed , mid seriously need the help on most servers ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Endar~~~RR11~~~Scourge of the Fallen Realms ~~~GM HoA~~~Mordred~~~Gareth |
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LightingBird
(Registered)
Posts : 1824
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RE: How to Gank a Warlock |
12/30/04 12:11 PM |
The first time I went up against one, I murdered the warlock. I guess I got lucky, he caught me by surprise and missed all three of his spell attacks on me.
Moments later... pole death.
Now the next time. I was murdered in under 3 seconds or so. I appealed him because I had no idea what happened. After he did the same to some others the same way. He got some more appeals. I don't know what became of him but he never came back.
Anyway, I have to say I understand why they make the new classes to the other realms to help out on the population problem. But damn, this class is really insanely strong. It really seems odd that mythic would make a player character so deadly.
But oh well...
Warlocks you better get me before I get to you, thats all I have to say. An Old School Intellivision Gamer. Conanzulu(XBOX360 Tag)Team Sith Lords
Lord Blackzorro - RR11 CL10 LONE ENFORCER Master Scout  |
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dittle
(Registered)
Posts : 107
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RE: How to Gank a Warlock |
12/30/04 5:54 PM |
I dont think warlocks are as "ultimate" as they say..
my 42ns had no problem killing yellow/oj warlocks all through mordred.
That inclues scooblers warlock haha ;) "dittle"
I PA them.. and if they are smart enough they can release a chamber on me instantly, but its still not fast enough... because the second they release the chamber my creeping death goes off and they are stunned... I hit em again with a garrote or two depending on theyr AF/HP's and they go down.
Never have I lost to a warlock if I get the upper hand.
Hence-forth you guys make warlocks seem like an insta I-WIN 90% of the time...
they arent.
You lose.
Dittle - 50 NS, mordred (retired) jiaakba - 43 ranger, mordred (retired) |
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Kar
(Registered)
Posts : 724
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RE: How to Gank a Warlock |
01/04/05 8:51 PM |
Well I don't know if my thid experience with locks is anything to go by, but if I get stun of with qc they are dead or run when stun wears off. I get two nukes before stun drops and the third is casting by the time they target/face me and hits before they can cast a chamber a lot of the time. Most times it is their runemaster backup that gets me with bolts.
As to damage, I do about 200 average in thid on equal lvls so thats 400 before 5 sec stun wears off if I crit yellow toons go down in 2 casts. By molvik I will have 8 sec stun? and more damage so 3 casts before stun wears off so maybe 900+ damage = WL dead hopefully, time will tell. Delv on nuke is 102 at lvl22 163 at lvl35.
I have noticed in thid the locks tend to stay back till near the end of the fight then finish off the survivers. |
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Vardonn
(Registered)
Posts : 320
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RE: How to Gank a Warlock |
01/04/05 10:33 PM |
Mid population, at least on the 2 servers I play on, is almost so low it is a joke.
Warlocks piss me off for sure one on one, but most of the time I don't even try to attack another solo caster in Leirvik anyway.
Chances are if the caster is a sorc with speed and a pet, he can get the better of you if he can use /face and qcast.
If the caster is a runie with speed, I usually avoid them because of the bolt, or the root +snare nukes.
If the caster has no speed, no pet, and is running around in swishy number 8 patterns, he ain't solo.
If any of these casters take any melee hits, or if I just know that they haven't had a chance to recast their bladeturn, I will let the arrows fly.
My personal way to gank a warlock is to wait until they are focused on or are targetting something else, get off to their side a little bit, 2 rapidfire shots, then 1 critical. Most of the time I either kill them outright, or help someone else finish them off. I'd say half the time they are successful in killing their initial target, which most of the time is not me.
I always tell my visible groupmates that as long as I am not being interrupted from range I can tag support/casters quickly, repeatedly, and with great results. We usually sacrifice a tank or Vamp who can last long enough for the enemy to be focused on them while I start harassing the support.
Summary: How to gank a warlock, bring a couple distrations with ya lol 50 Celt blade/shieldmaster 50 druid 46 bubble warden 44 Leirvik ranger of pure fun 50 Kobold savage 50 shaman 42 healer |
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GangreneBaby
(Registered)
Posts : 136
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RE: How to Gank a Warlock |
01/04/05 11:49 PM |
All ranting aside, here are my observations on how to take down a warlock.
Mythic is legendary in its slowness to fix balance issues, so it's either live with it, or cancel. Here's some tips if you pick the former option... This is mainly from my experience in Molvik (alb) and NF (hib druid).
- Archers are the warlock's primary weakness. Scouts and rangers are the only ones that I see getting consistent kills vs. warlocks in both Molvik and NF, especially in keep sieges. Stealth, penetrating arrow, then rapid fire ftw. No they don't always make the kill, but they do get it enough of the time. Important tip: in the open field, ENGAGE THE WARLOCK FROM MAX RANGE. Especially if he has a third (boltrange) chamber up. Healers, in keep/tower defensive battles, make the friendly archers your primary concern. Seriously.
- Like all classes, they can be overwhelmed via superior numbers. Yes, some of your teammates WILL die 99% of the time, but them's the breaks. Once his chambers are gone, use any trick you can to interrupt his casting and force him to use primers instead (which are still quite lethal, but not quite as bad as regular-casted warlock spells.) I've noticed that minstrels are quite good at messing with warlocks.
- Assassins... even if you get the kill, you'll probably die yourself to the DoT. Resign yourself to that fact. It is a suicide mission, but one that will be of enormous help to your teammates if you take him down, since the warlock is by far the most powerful member of the enemy's team. Despite what the original poster said, backstab won't give you that much of an advantage because a warlock will just /face, according to my guildmates. I don't have an NS myself, but I've been told that PA+CD is still the relatively best way to take a warlock.
- If you have Cure Poison, PUT IT ON YOUR MAIN RVR HOTKEY BAR. Even if you're a melee friar with 7 rejuv. The warlock megadot causes a green graphic effect on the victim not unlike what low-level STR debuffs cause. Cast cure poison before you cast heals, unless the victim is almost dead. In fact, feel free to cast it on whichever groupmate starts taking damage first in a fight against Mid no matter what... chances are, he has the dot on him.
- On that note, healers with Cure Poison are actually the warlock's least profitable targets. Druids and clerics with instaheal and cure poison are the only ones who can reliably survive a warlock's assault. However, many warlock players still follow traditional tactics and target the enemy druid/cleric first. Use this to your advantage! You WANT the dot on you instead of on your sorc or other caster.
- Pet classes: Use your pet as a fire-and-forget missile. Sic pet and then run before (hopefully) the warlock notices you. What you want is for him to burn a chamber or two on your pet instead of on you. Cabbys can do this best since they have nearsight.
- On that note, remember that nearsight is a great tool vs. warlocks. I know that mana specs are all the rage these days but elds, if you find it within yourselves to spec to light, your realm will love you for it :)
- Mid gank groups that run with warlocks: I confess, I have not found a single good strategy to fight the lethal combo of warlock + skald speed. If you are hib, all you can do is pray that your bard has instamez up and has lighting-fast reflexes. If anyone has a strategy for dealing with this, please post. |
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Slitz
(Registered)
Posts : 20
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RE: How to Gank a Warlock |
01/05/05 12:14 AM |
Okay here are my perspectives as a Ranger in handling a Warlock (this doesn't mean I think Warlocks don't need nerfing, I agree with Sabranic's assessment very much).
With my partner, a NS, we both get to melee and he lands BS, I do a melee attack, then I use desperate bowman (is not effected by immunity timer and is a 275 damage 5 second unpurgeable stun) and the shade finishes him off.
Solo, and here I am using theory since I am probable the only rr10 person at ml1, stealth up to him in melee, zephyr, and finish with bow. I would think hunter would be similar strategy. Scouts I think could stealth to them, swing to break bubble and then slam with shield and finish with bow.
These are just ideas. And stealth classes are the only ones I know much about. Galahad
RR10 Lurikeen Ranger
40 bow 30 stealth 36 pf 39 blades 22 cd
Battler/Malice/SoM/GSV/Sharkskin Gloves/Alvarus Leggings/Eerie Darkness Stone/Fools Bow
PD4, MoS4, Tough4, IP2, Purge2 |
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SBmaster
(Registered)
Posts : 104
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RE: How to Gank a Warlock |
01/09/05 12:14 AM |
| Sheridan dont know what you are thinking BS 2? or BS 1? because BS 2 is not much less dmg then a PA in thidranki My ns does BS 2 for 240 dmg on casters easy lol thats over half their life next hit I see a nice dead little caster of any casting class at my feet :) BS1 sucks never use it unless you dont have bs2 lol |
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DerHuhnTeufel
(Registered)
Posts : 4474
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RE: How to Gank a Warlock |
01/09/05 2:59 AM |
I personally found that The entire BS2 line did not do as much damage as a single perf did. Certainly not enough to make up for a 2-3 second stun.
In Thid, with perf, you can 1-shot a blue caster with ease. If you've got decent envenom, you should still be able to 1-shot a yellow, even though you may have to wait a second. |
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G
(Ghetto Mocha Man)
Posts : 6975
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RE: How to Gank a Warlock |
01/10/05 9:14 AM |
| As a ranger I critshot them and auot reload and release next shot. Not sure what happens next because I close my eyes and grab my balls. |
